Episode Transcript
Nurse Shenell | Host (01:03)
Hey friend, welcome back to the All One Nurse podcast. I'm so glad you are here with me today. It's February and it's one of my favorite months because it so meaningful. It's Black History Month, which is not enough time to celebrate it, but we still get an opportunity to...
honor the legacy, brilliance, and resilience woven into the fabric of health care by those who have paved the way before me. And it's also Heart Health Month, which always reminds me to check in with my physical heart and my spiritual heart. And as nurses, we just post so much out that we also have to
Pause and just ask, how's my heart really doing? Literally, how is my heart doing? What is your heart posture?
as I've been discussing in my own mentorship program called Woman to Woman, but more on that later.
But today's episode, it really fits into the theme of hard work.
because we're joined by someone who has spent over 50 years caring for people at some of the most vulnerable moments in their lives.
Her name is Ann Wax and her expertise lies in the human experience of cancer care. And today she is sharing some of the light and heavy moments regarding her journey in transition of becoming an oncology doula, which just took place in 2025.
where she's offering compassionate presence, emotional and spiritual support, and helping patients and families understand that it's not just about treatment, but the meaning behind what they're walking through. She's passionate about helping nurses reconnect with empathy and presence, the kind of care that goes beyond protocols and
gets back to the human side of healthcare, which is what we're doing here at All One Nurse. She's also the author of Op-Ed on Cancer
and she previously had a website called RomanticSeniors.com, where she explored connection, aging, and dignity in the senior population.
But before we jump in, I want to offer a gentle reminder that if you're not already a subscriber, please consider subscribing so that you don't miss another episode and that others will discover this podcast as well.
And one thing I love about having conversations with nurses from around the nation and hopefully from around the world is that here at All 1 Nurse, we welcome different viewpoints and generations of nursing. And
stay focused on what truly matters, which is growing together and returning to that humanity in every patient and in each other.
And as we talk about cancer care, here's a grounding reminder.
According to the American Cancer Society, the US was expecting to see over 2 million new cancer diagnosis in 2024, which is the highest number ever recorded. And this is why conversations like this with Anne Wax matter. So take a deep breath, settle in.
and let's walk into this heart centered conversation together.
Nurse Shenell | Host (04:45)
Hi, Miss Anne, how are you doing this evening?
Ann (04:47)
I'm delighted to be with you.
Nurse Shenell | Host (04:49)
Yes, ma'am. Thank you so much for joining us on the All One Nurse podcast. Yes. Now, tell us a little bit about you and what made you pursue nursing.
Ann (04:59)
I've been a nurse for over 50 years, probably older than many of the people that are listening to this broadcast podcast. And actually I didn't really want to pursue nursing. That's the irony of it. I was, my mother was a nurse and at the time I did not want to be like my mom, which is, ironic now. And my father decided, after I was all set.
Nurse Shenell | Host (05:04)
Yes.
now.
Ann (05:21)
going to college and ready to go. says, well, you should go be a nurse. And I said, I don't want to be a nurse. And says, no, you should go be a nurse. And actually that was the best advice he ever gave me. And I wouldn't have been in this business for so long if it wasn't, you know, I really, learned a lot about life and I learned a lot about people. And it was a skill that was always, it was a gift to me.
Nurse Shenell | Host (05:26)
wow.
Awesome awesome now When you say 50 years ago, how what what type of program did you come through at that time?
Ann (05:53)
So
what happened was I went into the two-year nursing program and I worked there and then I went on and I got a degree in education in healthcare because I always thought I should be a teacher but every time I was going back or doing different things I got married. So my husband was an attorney, is an attorney and we went down to Baltimore.
Nurse Shenell | Host (06:14)
Bye-bye.
Ann (06:16)
That's where I had the Southern experience. went down to Baltimore and I got a job at Johns Hopkins Hospital, brand new oncology unit. And I didn't know really what I was getting into, but again, it was a wonderful experience. And it seems like every time I was going to do something else, I was always drawn back into nursing. ⁓ it was, nursing was very good to me.
Nurse Shenell | Host (06:36)
Wow.
Ann (06:40)
And as I said, enabled me independence and to be free at the same time to do what I wanted to do because I was always able to reinvent myself, find a niche in nursing that I could do. And that's the beauty of nursing. Cause a lot of people say, well, you know, when they go into another profession, they are just that one profession. Nursing.
Nurse Shenell | Host (07:02)
Yeah.
Ann (07:03)
You learn so much, you can turn around and do many different things, which I did.
Nurse Shenell | Host (07:08)
Yeah, so tell us what all did you do, Ms. Ayn?
Ann (07:11)
That's a long story. So, so what happened was I did oncology nursing. And as I said, I got a wonderful education there at Johns Hopkins. Their philosophy at the time was you may not stay here, but we're going to teach you about oncology and take that knowledge elsewhere. And I, and I did, and then I did utilization nursing and then I did psychiatric nursing. taught at the BOCES program.
Nurse Shenell | Host (07:12)
And.
Ann (07:38)
here in New York, and we took students into Creedmoor, which is a very large psychiatric hospital. And then I opened up my own business called healthcare advocates where I, lectured and spoken health and wellness and the other part to senior sexuality. It was a very hot topic and I was very popular at conferences.
Nurse Shenell | Host (07:57)
That's awesome. it's... We're friendly.
Ann (07:59)
I used to give condoms to, ⁓
because what people don't understand with senior sexuality, they have a very high rate of sexual transmitted diseases. And when I went to conferences, you always have to brand yourself. And this was before content marketing. And I actually had condoms flavored with my logo on it. And I...
I spoke in nursing programs. spoke at Binghamton in their master's program about senior sexuality. There's a lot of people who are not aware of it. And I took that onto, I still stayed in oncology nursing and I still did that too. I did multitasking, so to speak, with my career.
Nurse Shenell | Host (08:39)
Wow, you did two totally different things, oncology and sexual health.
Ann (08:43)
But sexual health is related to oncology where, again, I also wrote a book called Op Ed on Cancer because it also has a whole chapter on that too, because nobody addresses sexuality. Now they're just starting to, but intimacy they don't really talk about because what happens is I'm very open and a lot of times the healthcare professionals are not.
Nurse Shenell | Host (08:57)
you
Ann (09:08)
and they take their lens, their skew on their sexual take and nobody wants to talk about it. And a lot of times I used to have patients talk about intimacy and touch and many times with women with breast cancer, their body gets disfigured and it's very hard to relate and the partners.
Nurse Shenell | Host (09:12)
Yeah.
Ann (09:30)
So actually, sexuality, intimacy, a very large part of biology, yes.
Nurse Shenell | Host (09:33)
That is good.
Oh, wow. I never really thought I guess now since you say it like that.
Ann (09:40)
Nobody thinks it. In fact, I'm trying to do, putting together like a conference on survivorship because after the oncology, after the treatments, you're still left with, what do you do with intimacy and sexual, know, some parts work, some parts don't work. And people are not like when people, when women are having mastectomies now. And a lot of times,
Nurse Shenell | Host (09:42)
Yeah.
Ann (10:03)
They do, it's a wonderful surgery now, nerve sparing, where they leave the nerve, the touch in the breast tissues, because that's part of intimacy, where a lot of times I had women when they would come complain and they'd say, I can't feel anything. I don't feel as a woman. And then again, then they have the other part with prostate cancer and not performing and.
Nurse Shenell | Host (10:13)
Yeah.
Ann (10:25)
People always talk to me about all their problems. I don't know why, but somehow they gravitated to me. ⁓ I'm a man. Maybe that.
Nurse Shenell | Host (10:26)
Yeah. Yeah.
You just seem very welcoming.
Yes,
very welcoming. I think just to take that time to really see them as a whole person and it's like you invite that safe space, it appears, for patients to truly open up. That's awesome.
Ann (10:49)
Yeah, well, that's what they
say. That's what they say. And, you know, without the touch and feeling of love, you can have all the treatments in the world and it's it may help you, but the emotionally, it doesn't.
Nurse Shenell | Host (11:01)
Mmm.
That's good. you went deep. Like, we're not even 10 minutes into this interview, Ms. Anne. You went.
Ann (11:08)
Oh, I can take your flight.
I can take you all the way. Let me tell you. Years and years and years. have, you know, I pivoted now. I guess, I don't know if that's one of your questions, but to do oncology nursing into oncology doula, because doula is mean caring, it's a mother. Because
Nurse Shenell | Host (11:13)
⁓ my God.
Man.
Mm-hmm.
Ann (11:30)
People don't have that anymore. They need someone to sit with them, talk with them. And a lot of them are scared and they have the panic attacks and things like that. So you can have navigators, you can have the doctors and nurses, but you need that element of healing, which people aren't getting anymore. Emotional, should say, the emotional element. They're getting the physical.
Nurse Shenell | Host (11:49)
Right, right, and that's.
Yeah.
Ann (11:55)
emotional.
Nurse Shenell | Host (11:55)
Yeah. Yes. I love that you say that. And I think that's where I am so passionate about this platform because I truly want to get back to the human side of health care, which is seeing the patient for one, we have to be our whole self, but also seeing the patient for who they are and not just, okay, checking off tasks. We can do all those things well.
But do you truly make that connection with the patient?
Ann (12:21)
That's what I tell patients too, because I had a doctor once tell me how I talk a lot. And I said, but I get my work done. I managed to find out what's really going on with the patients. Some people can't do that. part of the story is I tell patients, even if it's an emergency, let's get to the facts. Let's find out what's going on with you.
Nurse Shenell | Host (12:32)
Yes.
Ann (12:43)
and tell me how you feel and we'll move forward. And to get that baseline about what is really going on with a patient is essential, where a lot of times, especially with young nurses, what I have found is that they get intimidated. They don't feel free to ask questions, they feel afraid, or how that patient's gonna react to them. And I say, don't worry about that, just...
Nurse Shenell | Host (12:57)
Hmm.
Ann (13:07)
ask the questions that you feel is necessary because if you find out what's really going on underlining what's going on with the patient, that helps the healing process.
Nurse Shenell | Host (13:17)
Yes, ma'am.
Nurse Shenell | Host (13:23)
It's time for a Faith-Filled Nursing Note, and today I want to focus on wholehearted care in hard places.
because listening to Anne's story in her experience with patients today reminds me so much of Caleb in Joshua 14.
Miss Anne has been dedicated to oncology for over 38 years. That's a long time. And Caleb, was a man who followed God wholeheartedly. Even when the journey was long, rough. And the crowd around him didn't always understand his faith.
He had faith when he was 40 years old, and 45 years later, he still has that same faith and tenacity to believe in the promises of God and say, hey God, I'm ready and I'm still dedicated. So
as nurses, especially in spaces like oncology, where emotions, run deep and the human experience is raw. We are invited into that same kind of wholeheartedness like Caleb, not perfection, not endless strength, but a steady anchored heart that keeps showing up with compassion.
presence and purpose. And since Heart Health Month, this is a good moment to pause and ask How is
my heart,
Am I serving from a place of overflow or am I running on fumes? Caleb teaches us that wholeheartedness isn't loud, it's faithful, it's consistent, it's choosing to trust God
with the parts of the journey we don't understand. And Anne's decades of walking with patients through fear, uncertainty, and hope reminds us that wholehearted nursing is sacred work, may God strengthen our heart today.
the one we use to care for others and the one he longs to care for in us. Okay, let's get back to our conversation with Ms. N because
She doesn't disappoint in this next part.
Nurse Shenell | Host (15:46)
Now when you started out, at what moment during your nursing journey did that kind of just click for you? Or did it just evolve over time?
Ann (15:56)
I think it has to do with me. I find people fascinating in the sense that everybody has a story. And I've also tell people over and over again, when somebody's angry at you or nasty towards you, it's really not you. It's what's going on inside them.
And that many, many times you have to understand that. all my life I've been, as I said, I talk to people and no matter where I go, I sort of like line up a history, so to speak. They tell me what is really going on. And I guess they feel comfortable with me because I understand there's a lot of hurt inside.
Nurse Shenell | Host (16:27)
Yeah.
Yes, ma'am. And I think just for you to just come in and ask in the first place, like asking questions kind of for me will help me let my guard down because you care enough to ask.
Ann (16:45)
Well,
some people say to me, like, I'm rude. And I say to them, well, it's really not rude. I said, if I can learn how you feel and what you're going through, I said, I'm not asking these questions in the sense that I'm nosy or I'm curious. I'm asking them because when I find out what's going on with you, especially with oncology nursing, know, a lot of times people come in and their pressure is high.
or they're nauseous or they had a fight with their spouse or they couldn't sleep. And if you pinpoint these questions more, then you're able to communicate with the physician, you're able to communicate with the patient and you're quicker to get care to them. I had patients that asked me, they pulled me over, they asked me if the doctor is a good doctor. I had patients they asked me all the time.
I have patients that ask me, especially with oncology, know, when I take care of them, usually at follow-up visits, am I going to die? People ask me these questions and they don't, you know, I guess because I'm truthful, I tell them they're not going to die that day. I mean, that I can tell them truthfully.
Nurse Shenell | Host (17:54)
That's true, you don't see it happening, right? Okay, so With oncology so you've done oncology most of your career in addition to trying to branch away but still just couldn't break away Okay
Ann (18:01)
Yes.
I've always come
back to oncology. I guess that's where my mission is, how you may call it that, but I've always come back to oncology.
Nurse Shenell | Host (18:15)
Yes, ma'am. Now, with becoming a doula, when did that transition take place? And when did you first learn about it?
Ann (18:24)
Well, what happened was, in June, I stopped doing oncology, infusion oncology, chemotherapy. It was changed. got sick. I got COVID. ⁓ I knew it, you know, at this stage of the game, I said to myself, as much as I really enjoyed doing it and I enjoyed my colleagues, I miss them. I decided I don't want to get out of the game, so to speak.
Nurse Shenell | Host (18:35)
and
Ann (18:48)
So I decided instead of, don't have to get chemotherapy, but I can still give advice and walk people through the challenges of oncology. And that's what it is. And people have always called me up throughout my career and asked me for my advice and what do I think and what they should do. So now it's just pivoted into without giving them chemotherapy, I'm able to give them the emotional support. And it's mainly to walk them through for healing and wellness.
Nurse Shenell | Host (19:15)
Yes, ma'am, that's awesome. And with this, do you do this with organizations? Are you like a liaison or how does that work?
Ann (19:23)
⁓ No,
because what I also find, I'm independent. So I would like to work with an organization, let's put it that way, to share and to, you know, the different offices and different agencies. But at this moment, I'm on my own.
Nurse Shenell | Host (19:27)
Okay.
And that's just
you just started this year Yeah, so that means you never know what next year looks like especially as we bring it bring more awareness to it because I'm pretty sure What I've witnessed with even just family members and friends of family members having cancer Like they ring the bell and their cancer free, but then after that it is so much more
Ann (20:05)
Well, that's my intention. And that's why I'm setting up some seminars, conferences on survivorship afterwards, because once the treatment is over, then, you know, like everybody's happy that it's over, but then what? What happens afterwards? And many, many people now, more and more people are getting cancer. And many of these people are living with side effects from it. And the sad part is,
Nurse Shenell | Host (20:28)
Yes.
Ann (20:30)
Like I'm on LinkedIn, I have many, many followers and I get DM messages all the time about the side effects and what to do and are they the only ones? And people have to understand they're not. And it's a sad part because our society doesn't understand it because the bells and whistles are gone. And then what happens? Here you are alone. Nobody brings your food anymore. Nobody goes.
Nurse Shenell | Host (20:41)
Mmm.
Ann (20:56)
holds your hand, your family's happy, you're well, but they say, over it. a lot of times you're too tired even to go back to work emotionally. People don't understand oncology.
Nurse Shenell | Host (21:08)
Yeah, and the financial burden. ⁓
Ann (21:10)
well, that's a whole nother story. That's a whole
nother story with the financial burden. Again, you have patients that come in and before they come into a hospital, before they receive chemotherapy, it's always the insurance. So, and sometimes the insurance won't pay for one medication that actually has less side effects or they wait till you get side effects and then they'll pay for the medication.
Nurse Shenell | Host (21:16)
I'm you.
Ann (21:35)
It's very hard to watch this because here you are, you're anthology patient and you're trying to figure out how to live. And then you find out, the insurance isn't going to pay for it, or you get a bill and you want to know how you're going to pay for it. Now, the other part, which they don't talk about is the trials. You know, everybody says a lot of times to go on a clinical trial, especially for an indigent population.
And what they don't realize is with an indigent population, a lot of them don't have insurance, so they can't go on trials. And so it's a catch-22. And it's not, how can I say, it's not controlled by big business. People say that. It spins around and around and around. And we have to, if the public gets more aware of prevention.
Nurse Shenell | Host (22:06)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Ann (22:24)
and understanding what to do and advocacy maybe would be better.
Nurse Shenell | Host (22:29)
Thank you so much. I remember having a conversation with a friend well, basically like family, but just being a sounding board, I didn't realize all that came with after.
Ann (22:30)
That was fun, huh?
Mm-hmm.
after is a lot more than going through because you, again, cancer has, you have a physical component to cancer and you have an emotional component cancer. And a lot of the emotional components go back to childhood, childhood wounds, where you physically abused, emotionally abused, sexually abused, you know, do you feel inadequate? And all these things go into how you focus on treatment.
Nurse Shenell | Host (22:44)
after.
Ann (23:06)
And then when you're finished with the treatment, and sometimes people are never, I tell patients all the time, like cancer is more of a chronic disease now. You have people living with stage four metastatic diseases, but I tell them, keep going and you will find that more and more new treatments are coming out. So, but at the same time, it's the emotional component that really
Nurse Shenell | Host (23:07)
Wow.
Ann (23:34)
has to heal also. And people don't understand that. You know, and they look at you and they say, you know, like a lot of times I tell patients, are you going to have friends come over and let you put your makeup on people wear wigs, clothes, and then they'll come over and they'll look in this and they'll, they'll get up right to your eyes and look at you and say, you don't have cancer. You look so well, what's going on? And meanwhile, they don't know what's going on internally, you know, the hurt and
Nurse Shenell | Host (23:58)
Yeah. Yeah.
Ann (24:01)
But that's why more and more people should get educated. And that's one of reasons why I wrote my book was to help the person who's going through this, how they're going to react to the public that will go up and ask these questions.
Nurse Shenell | Host (24:05)
Yeah.
Yes ma'am. Now is your book, it, where all can, we find your book?
Ann (24:20)
So my book is on Amazon, it's called Op-Ed on Cancer. And Op-Ed on Cancer, I chose that title because somebody called me. was one of my patients who called me an op-ed page. He said to me, that's what I am. So I said, okay, because sometimes you gotta find a good title and nothing really suited me and my personality. So I am an op-ed page.
Nurse Shenell | Host (24:22)
Yes, ma'am.
you
You
Okay.
Yeah.
Ann (24:45)
And because my book is a self-help book, but it's not the same type of self-help book. It, you know, it talks about legacy, purpose in life. Yes, we're all going to die one day. So what are you going to do to, to help yourself and to help others, you know? And also the other part to people don't understand is, and I say this all the time to my patients, let people help you.
Nurse Shenell | Host (25:02)
Mmm.
Ann (25:10)
it's part of ingrained in our human essence is that when somebody helps you, you are actually helping that person be a human being and learn gratitude. And that's the other thing people don't understand.
Nurse Shenell | Host (25:18)
Yeah.
Yes, I'm learning that myself. Like I'm always the type that I'm like, oh, I don't mind blessing other people. like, oh, I'm gonna bless them with this. I'm gonna do this and I can do this. But then when somebody say, oh, Chanel, this is for you or I got, I'm like, oh, I'm good, I'm good. And then I have to tell myself, stop. Don't take that away from them. Especially when I know how it feels to be able to help others. Like I need it sometimes.
Ann (25:48)
Yeah. Well, I always say I'm balanced and if they, if they help me, get unbalanced. So that's what happens with me. But, know, it depends on who's talking to you, but if somebody, somebody is not well and they can't clean or they can't go to the doctors and they need people to take them. And when somebody clearly says, let me help you. That's when you, that's, that's an intervention. And, and I say that, and that's when.
Nurse Shenell | Host (25:49)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yes.
Ann (26:15)
You can let someone help you. I mean, I really, at this point in my life, I don't want anybody helping me. I still want to be independent.
Nurse Shenell | Host (26:17)
Yes, ma'am.
What?
Look, Miss Anne, now you gotta take your own advice. If somebody wants to help you, you gotta let them. You gotta let them. Yes, but I do, I agree with that. tell, see with my small kids, I'm like, look, I'm like, oh, I'm good. I'm gonna bring that. And they're like, girl, leave those kids right here. I'm like, you know what, say let's, I'm gonna let you. Yeah. Look, let me put some context to it.
Ann (26:25)
Yeah, I'm working on it. Yeah. Yeah.
But that's different. See, let people help me with my project. I say, that's different.
Nurse Shenell | Host (26:48)
I'ma let you help me with these kids. But yes, I even tell students like lean on your support system. and identify your support system. Sometimes we don't even want to ask for help
Ann (26:59)
also when you ask for help, you also have to remember who you're asking it. So you're asking it from somebody that's going to come back at you one day and say, look what I did for you. And then you start that whole conversation. So hypothetically, yes, you can ask for help. But that's why I paraphrase it and say, if you're an oncology patient or something, if you're not well.
Nurse Shenell | Host (27:03)
Right.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Ann (27:25)
or if you need help with child raising or something like that, then you should play with the idea.
Nurse Shenell | Host (27:28)
I like that.
I like that. So be careful what help you invite.
Ann (27:32)
Yeah, always be careful with your speech, because
sometimes you don't want to hear it. And then you get more independent than you'll never ask for help. So you pick and choose the conversation.
Nurse Shenell | Host (27:37)
Yeah.
Yeah, that balanced. So I like that balanced. Okay,
Ann (27:45)
it's...
Nurse Shenell | Host (27:48)
now.
I
Ms. Anne, what advice do you have for our new nurses and aspiring nurses?
Ann (27:54)
One advice I like to give to nurses is for them to understand when you have someone who is acting out, who's angry, sometimes insulting, that it's not directed at you. And take a deep breath. And if you get insulted or you feel like you cannot work with that person, get someone else to work or take care of that patient and understand it's not about you.
Nurse Shenell | Host (28:06)
Yeah.
Good night.
Ann (28:20)
Um, I see it a lot of times and, you know, the nurses come over to me and cause I'm older and more stern. You know, I'll go over and tell the guy, you know, patient, say, you know, this is a wonderful nurse. Why are you giving this nurse a, you know, time, but I can get away with that. But the point of the story is, that to understand that it's not about them and don't get disheartened or upset.
Nurse Shenell | Host (28:37)
Yeah.
Ann (28:47)
When someone says, I don't want you, I don't like you, or all the other negatives that may come up. And if you don't feel, you can, you know, take care of that patient, just say, and go talk to your manager or your mentor or your preceptor and say that to them and be honest, because you don't want an incident, because that could hurt your license. And you also learn that, you know, sometimes if it's a difficult situation,
walk away. And the other part, the other part is empathy. Understand, understand that when you take care of a patient, that patient's giving you their trust. And to understand that, and you know, like I started IVs and an IV is a very intimate experience. Somebody's sticking their arm out and you're sticking a needle or inserting a needle into them and understand empathy.
Nurse Shenell | Host (29:14)
Yes, ma'am. ⁓
Yeah.
Ann (29:41)
and know where they're coming from and try to make a situation more calming if you can. I usually tell stories. I always tell patients stories. Well, it depends. Politics are also interesting.
Nurse Shenell | Host (29:48)
I like that.
Like ⁓ God you get somebody
in trouble I Love how you said that Starting starting an IV is an intimate experience That's true That I've never looked at it like that, but then that's pretty true. I mean there are
Ann (30:03)
Yes, it is.
I wrote a post on that too, on LinkedIn.
I say that to patients. In fact, when I start the IV, I usually say thank you for allowing them to give me their trust. And people get shocked because I am outspoken and kibitz, I have fun, but...
Nurse Shenell | Host (30:17)
Mm.
That's good.
Ann (30:27)
In all seriousness, when they're facing their challenges and they're scared and upset and they're putting their trust with me, that's quite an honor, I feel. And it's empathy and to understand that. And it is an intimate experience because you're taking, see, I feel we're all together. It's all energy. they're giving me their energy and I'm giving them my energy.
Nurse Shenell | Host (30:53)
that.
Ann (30:53)
And
I'm starting this IV or this insertion of a needle.
Nurse Shenell | Host (30:58)
And they can feel it they can feel your energy like if you yeah, I was just telling Dr. White in her interview that patients can tell they can feel your energy and they will say I don't want that nurse back in my room and I'm just like, okay so that's why you get all those questions
Ann (31:00)
⁓ yes.
Mm-hmm.
Nurse Shenell | Host (31:16)
Miss
Anne, because you're just your energy. You can feel it. Your spirit is like you even just here with you. I'm sure if I wasn't on this recording that I could probably have some good conversations about my own private life. Right.
Ann (31:30)
Well, sometimes that can give you a big headache too.
But that's what people don't understand. we're all spirits of energies. And people feel vibrations also with the energies.
Nurse Shenell | Host (31:40)
Mmm.
Ann (31:41)
So therefore, so when you walk into a room, you know, like I had a couple of patients say, oh, you knew what this, and in the beginning, yes, I was, but I go, oh no, oh no, I'm, I'm, I'm, oh no, no, I'm, I'm good, I'm good. And I take a deep breath and I talk, I look up to the spine, I say, please, okay. And then it's done. But the point of it is, is that, you know, people can sense things. And when you go in there, you have to understand.
Nurse Shenell | Host (31:59)
Yeah.
Ann (32:08)
that it's hard for them and it's also hard for you.
Nurse Shenell | Host (32:12)
Yeah, with that because what I'm hearing is like confidence building What advice do you have for for new nurses? Coming into yes, I had it so question where you always talk it You right See I have to ask because I had a nurse that was She mentioned that she wasn't as taught like she wasn't
Ann (32:21)
with confidence.
Yes. Yes.
Nurse Shenell | Host (32:35)
Talkative but nursing and her experience has made her Speak up and I was like, yeah You definitely have to build some resilience and a voice if you're to take care of patients
Ann (32:47)
Well, I've I've always I find people interesting Because everybody has a story everyone has a narrative and everybody can teach you something so when I speak to patients or when I speak to You know like the personal care assistance or I always got a you know, I always was on the team so to speak If they help me I help them you work as a team
Nurse Shenell | Host (32:52)
Yeah.
Mmm.
Ann (33:09)
Everybody's a storyteller and everyone can teach you something. And in my years of nursing, I met many different types of people. I've taken care of famous people. I've taken care of indigent people. It doesn't matter. I've taken care of people that were prejudice against towards me and all these variables. And you learn from it. And what I've learned
Nurse Shenell | Host (33:11)
Yes.
Ann (33:32)
People are people and you know, that's what it is. And if someone doesn't like you, that's okay. You just move on to someone else. That's not your issue. And you don't make people love you either. It doesn't matter.
Nurse Shenell | Host (33:35)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, right.
Mm-hmm. You said a whole word on this interview today Yes,
on topic.
when we talk about being a doula, how can providers and nurses and doulas collaborate with one another to help create a more patient-centered model of oncology care?
Ann (34:01)
Well, usually a doula, would go into the, if you're allowed to, depends. You would go into the treatment room or you go into the office visits and you listen to what the doctors have to say or the nurses have to say. And then, if the patient has any questions, you can help format questions if they wanna ask.
Nurse Shenell | Host (34:16)
Okay.
Ann (34:27)
You're not so much a spokesperson because you're giving the advocacy of the energy of it, allowing them to have the independence. And then in nursing, if they go into an infusion center or into the hospital, you can go in and observe what's going on. You can sit with them, can offer if they need something to drink or eat or emotional support.
Nurse Shenell | Host (34:34)
home.
Ann (34:50)
And especially when you go at home, know, a lot of times too, when they're home, you go visit them at home and help alleviate the anxiety. A lot of times people get scared when they go in for scans, follow up or just take them out. took a patient, we go walking, you know, just for walking and just, I guess, let that patient let me rant all day about certain people, people, you know, so that's what I'm saying.
Nurse Shenell | Host (35:10)
⁓
Ann (35:16)
Getting them off the, like allowing them, yes, they have cancer, but allowing them to know that they can live with it, or they will be able to finish their treatment and to have a wellbeing. The ultimate thing is healing. You feel physically and emotionally, and that's what a doula does, is helps patients walk through it. And also doula is for the family too.
Nurse Shenell | Host (35:39)
love it.
Ann (35:41)
You know, you have family members that come and they want them to take every sort of smoothie or all these different things, the naturals, you know, drugs, whatever they may be.
Nurse Shenell | Host (35:41)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, those natural regimens that they want them to do.
Ann (35:54)
Yeah,
it's frowned on. A lot of it is frowned on.
Nurse Shenell | Host (35:58)
Is it frowned on in combination with chemo or just in general?
Ann (36:03)
and well, in chemo because a lot of times it can change the... The most important thing if you want to do prevention, get some sleep. Pay it out, sleep is supposed to be important. I'm telling you this, or you get a lot of sleep.
Nurse Shenell | Host (36:05)
Thank you.
Bye! ⁓
Mmm.
Yeah.
Yes, ma'am. I look I've been going to bed super early because I like to wake up early. So I figured I can't go to bed late and wake up early. I'm not going to be any good. So I'm learning that rest is very important. Very important. So Thank you for sharing that.
Ann (36:30)
Yes.
Nurse Shenell | Host (36:33)
I want to wrap it up for you.
Ann (36:37)
What do I have here?
What did I do with it? About nursing.
That people should understand that with nursing, you need nurses to help heal the patient. And that's one of the most important things. You can have the best doctors. You can be in the best hospital. But if you don't have a nurse there,
Helping you, seeing what is going on with you, patient care, bedside care, emotional care. It doesn't matter. You need the nurse and that's what society has to understand.
Nurse Shenell | Host (37:08)
Yes ma'am, you said a lot and people don't realize Like how out of all the employees in that organization, how many of them are nurses?
Ann (37:18)
That's true.
Nurse Shenell | Host (37:18)
Yeah, now
I think they don't realize the percentage of nurses that make up the health care system.
Ann (37:25)
I think they do,
I think they do, but they don't realize the value of it. And that's the difference. know, from my experience and what I have seen, and even to this day, when I go visit the oncology patients, you know, as a doula, you need that nurse, you need that nurse that has the eyes and ears, professional eyes and ears, of taking care of someone. And I think society is losing it.
Nurse Shenell | Host (37:30)
Hmm.
Ann (37:51)
And I think they're losing it because, you know, management's coming in and say, well, you know, again, well, you you have the computer, you have the PCAs and, you know, and you have to chart and there's nothing wrong in charting because that's a whole nother topic. But the management, even though they say they are aware, they have to be more aware of the necessity of nurses if you want good healthcare.
Nurse Shenell | Host (38:12)
Yeah, yeah. Like you said, it seems like things just keep circling. man, man. It's like, how do we get to a point? Like, are we gonna be singing the same song five years from now?
Ann (38:17)
Yep.
Well, my
mother was a nurse in the 30s and the 40s and she saw me graduate nursing school and everything. And they were complaining about the same issues, ironically, as we are today. Hours, charting, nursing duties. The difference is nowadays, the patients are sicker than what they were back then and heavier.
Nurse Shenell | Host (38:36)
Wow.
Yes.
Ann (38:47)
than they were back then. And now we have machines that they think they could, that can do nurses jobs, and that's the other part. You still need the eyes and the ears of listening to what's going on.
Nurse Shenell | Host (39:01)
Yes, ma'am, and I know AI is being integrated into every single thing.
Ann (39:07)
Well, AI is okay. I'm not afraid of AI. See, I think that's the future and it does pick up on a lot of things. But at the same time, you still need, maybe you don't need the human touch, they can tell you elsewhere, but you need that human touch in the hospital scenario and in all the modalities of nursing. You need that touch because we're still human and you still have to trust.
Nurse Shenell | Host (39:09)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah.
Ann (39:32)
giving you the treatment.
Nurse Shenell | Host (39:33)
That's good, And I'm just scared that they're gonna try to use AI to do a human's job. ⁓
Ann (39:39)
They are. They are. But again,
see what I found with nursing, nurses take it. That's the whole thing because we, some point, see, I was very fortunate. Financially, I could pick and choose where I wanted to go. And it was all right with me financially.
Nurse Shenell | Host (39:46)
Hmm.
Ann (39:56)
But I know people that cannot walk away from the job that's the issue. How do you walk away from something when you know it's not safe, when you know that you're breaking your back? I I know nurses that are hurting your back now.
Even to start an IV, they bend their back and they hurt their back. you know, and so AI is there to help you. Look, we have blood pressure machines now that are helping us. You even have the EKGs with their little card now. You don't even need the big machines anymore. So those are interventions that help the nurses. That's right. So we can incorporate it all.
Nurse Shenell | Host (40:10)
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, you it on your watch. Yeah.
Ann (40:33)
But the nurses have to be more vocal with understanding that you need the human touch for healing, because we're all human.
Nurse Shenell | Host (40:41)
That's good, Ms. Anne. Now, as we wrap up, what legacy do you hope to leave in the lives of those you serve?
Ann (40:48)
like this.
Well, they hear my voice. I always, my one quote I usually say to everyone is you have to be your own lifeguard. You have to take care of yourself first. If you want to take care of others, you have to take care of yourself first because if you're not well and if you cannot do the job, then you cannot take care of others. And that goes with nursing, that goes with being mothers.
and to understand that and don't feel guilty.
Nurse Shenell | Host (41:18)
you talking to me now?
Ann (41:19)
Guilt is wasted
energy. well, guilt is wasted. That's another lecture I give to my patients. Guilt and shame are wasted energies. Just wasted energy.
Nurse Shenell | Host (41:27)
Mm.
I take that, I receive it and I'm not even your patient. You said, yeah. Yeah.
Ann (41:31)
I Well, that's what happens. I talk to everybody and I say that. I usually tell people, have five minutes
to take care of you and that's it. Not my patients, on the outside. have five minutes. Tell me what, you I say that all the time.
Nurse Shenell | Host (41:42)
Yeah.
I'll
take my five minutes. That was, very impactful. I like that. Cause a lot of times as a nurse, and when you say that we take it as nurses, we just take it. That is so true.
Ann (42:03)
nurse started this business where they don't take insurance. And you, yes, the doctor just serves
Nurse Shenell | Host (42:12)
yes
Ann (42:13)
And the same thing with healthcare too. know, the healthcare workers don't understand, people just don't understand everybody has a story and everybody has scars and wounds. you know, people have no idea. That's why when I say empathy, understand what the other person is. Now, I'll...
Look, I'm not this kumbaya person, as you can tell too. I mean, I'm not a pushover. But at the same time, there are people with real issues. And in society, everybody gets angry and things like that. tell them, it's like when people come in and rule, I say, okay. Okay. What do you want? Okay.
Nurse Shenell | Host (42:35)
Yeah.
So good.
So big question that I have, and I have talked about this on a TikTok about transition shock. Like new nurses going from nursing programs to now they're in the healthcare system and they're working.
Ann (43:08)
big fun.
Nurse Shenell | Host (43:09)
and totally shocked like it's a lot.
Ann (43:13)
Well, you
hope to remember, you gotta again remember the problem. know, look, when I started, when I went at the Stone Age, when I was the first there, nurses were resentful to new nurses back at the time. Okay. And I didn't know how to do certain things. That was the other thing I was going to say during the broadcast. I didn't know how to do certain things because, they didn't, you know, I wasn't taught, but.
Nurse Shenell | Host (43:27)
Mm. Yeah.
Ann (43:39)
I asked and I wasn't afraid to ask. And that's the other thing, you can't go wrong in asking. You may get a look, you may get a sneer, but you ask.
You go in and you help them or let them figure it out in a sense. But you know, you're a team. I mean, I would go in when I work nights, I would go in and I say, look, let me help you or a piece of it. Let me help you. You know, if I was free because they would come back to you.
I talked a lot. We spent a long time together.
Nurse Shenell | Host (44:05)
Oh my
God, I I have thoroughly enjoyed this conversation with you, Ms. Anne.
Ann (44:12)
Thank you.
Nurse Shenell | Host (44:12)
How can they connect with you as we wrap up?
Ann (44:15)
okay. So they can find me on LinkedIn and wax, a N N W A X. And then they can find me. They can send or DM me on LinkedIn. They can, find my book, op ed on cancer. They can, my email address is and wax seven at Gmail.
And I'm going to be doing seminars or conferences about survivorship and what happens after chemotherapy. And actually I'm trying to see which topic people like best on my LinkedIn so they can go and see the post. And read my posts and like my posts. I enjoy, I like seeing all that.
Nurse Shenell | Host (44:53)
Yes, ma'am. Well, thank you so much. And I will definitely have all the details down in the description below And thank you.
Ann (45:02)
And please keep in touch with me and may all your listeners keep in touch with me too.
Nurse Shenell | Host (45:07)
Thank you for joining in today's conversation with Mrs. Ann Wax.
I hope something in this episode encouraged you, challenged you and reminded you of the heart behind why you do what you do or why you want to become a nurse. And listen, if you are a newer nurse with less than 18 months of experience or you're aspiring to become a nurse,
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one nurse and letting your light shine bye
