Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: This is the All1Nerds podcast, where we are bridging the gap between the stethoscope and the soul and getting back to the human side of healthcare.
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Did you know that according to the CDC in the United States, that nearly 1 in 10 infants are admitted into the neonatal intensive care unit, and that's about 400,000 babies a year.
Not only that, but those numbers have risen from just 2016, where it was only 8.7%, to now in 2023 is 9.8% admission into the neonatal intensive care unit. And these increases not only affect one maternal age group, but all maternal age groups and ethnic backgrounds or racial backgrounds. So these numbers, when we're looking at these numbers, they're not just medical complexities during that population of patients, but but the emotional and spiritual weight that families carry during these critical times. So welcome back to the All One Nurse Podcast, where I am your host, Nurse Chanel Tompkins.
And this is just where faith meets mentorship. And every story reminds us why we chose this calling in the first place. Today we're joined by Ashley o', Neal, who has her master's in degree in nursing. She's a certified family nurse practitioner, maternal health advocate, and a host of the Ask a NICU Mama Podcast. Ashley brings a powerful blend of clinical experience, lived experience as a NICU and preemie mama, a widow and loss mama, which we'll all find out the details in this episode today. And her story is one of resilience, faith and compassion. Her voice gives as her voice is a gift to families navigating the NICU and beyond. So she's here to share her professional journey, her personal insights and patient perspective on trauma, informed care, the emotional toll and emotional needs of NICU parents, and how nurses can show up with empathy and excellence. But before we connect with Ashley, I would love for you to subscribe if you're not already a subscriber, and I thank you for being one. But go ahead and subscribe to the All One Nurse Podcast from wherever you're tuning in from, Whether it's on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon, Music, just all the things.
Because these conversations are truly changing lives. So stay tuned to the very end of the episode for updates on our mentorship opportunities.
Upcoming resources. I got a devotional that I want to tell you about, ways to connect with Ms. Ashley, whether it's through her books, her podcast, or her social media handles as well. And this episode is a special space for some of you, and you're exactly where you need to be. And if it is triggering in any way, please pause or fast forward because that's okay.
And my prayer for you is that you find a place of healing and progress in your own journey. So let's dive right in.
[00:03:57] Speaker B: Hi, Ashley. How are you?
[00:03:58] Speaker C: Well, how are you?
[00:04:00] Speaker A: I'm doing well. Thank you so much for getting on.
[00:04:03] Speaker B: The All One Nurse podcast. I'm so excited to have you on here.
[00:04:07] Speaker C: Thank you so much for inviting me. I'm honored.
[00:04:10] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:04:11] Speaker B: So, as always, we start out with.
[00:04:14] Speaker A: Your nursing journey, even though I know.
[00:04:17] Speaker B: You have a lot more to share with us today. So would you just please just share a snapshot of your nursing journey. What inspired you to go into nursing in the first place?
[00:04:28] Speaker C: So I always knew from a young age that I wanted to grow up to help people. I didn't quite know what path my first degree is in. Biomedical sciences wasn't when I got ready to graduate, I was like, okay, what do I do with this? I didn't really like, I was smart. Smart enough just to like not have to study. And grades came easily. So once I got ready to graduate, I'm like, okay, what's next? So I took some time, like maybe a year to try to figure out what I wanted to do. And then I ended up enrolling into an accelerated second degree nursing program in Philadelphia. I learned how to study then each, each quarter was like between 24 and 28 credits. And so you had two full days of classes and then the rest of the days you were had clinicals anywhere in like the tri state area.
And so that grew my love for nursing, my first degree. So I went to school in Philadelphia and then I ended up going back to Michigan for my first nursing job. And it was on a fast paced neuroscience unit where I felt like they threw the new grads to the wolves. They started everybody off on night shifts once they finished orientation. And so new grads, right? You'll have a bunch of new babies. Nurses who have been there six months, nurses have been there a year, and then at that year, mark, everybody start transitioning out. Because you would literally have six patients, say two were morbidly obese stroke patients. And you would need like multiple people to help turn. You'll have a patient that was a complete fall risk, that's jumping out of bed every few minutes. You'll have your spinal fusion patient that needed allotted every two, three hours. You'll have one completely independent patient who got neglected because you couldn't do it all. And then the other patient would probably be A person that is trait peg and restraint as a new grad nurse.
[00:06:14] Speaker B: And you're not even talking about those in isolation, not even that.
[00:06:20] Speaker C: And you just remember like running from one side of the unit to the next because you hear that, you get the like ding, ding, ding. You know, your patient jumps out of bed and you're like running across. So I did that for about a year, a little over a year. And at that time I had started dating my, my, my later to be husband, but boyfriend at the time. And then I ended up moving to Southern Maryland where I was a floor nurse for maybe three to four years before I decided to go back to school to become a nurse practitioner. Because I knew like I love healthcare, I love providing care, but I knew I could not be a floor nurse forever. I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. And I also wanted to be able to take care of my patients at a higher level. Like I wanted to be able to come up with the treatment plans and, and to help them.
[00:07:05] Speaker A: It's awesome.
[00:07:06] Speaker B: How many years did you do bedside nursing before going back to school for your nurse practitioner?
[00:07:13] Speaker C: I had been a board nurse for seven years before. So I want to say I did four years of just straight nursing and then I did a part time NP program and that was three years.
[00:07:22] Speaker B: Okay, awesome, awesome.
[00:07:24] Speaker C: I felt like when I graduated I had a good grasp of everything.
[00:07:27] Speaker B: Yes, yes. Thank you for sharing that. Now I have to ask because of course I like to cater to new nurses and nursing students and just pour back into them based off your journey. So is there, is there a challenge that you had to overcome during your nursing program? For one, you was an accelerated. So I take my hat off to you. But was there a challenge that you like had to, that you faced and if so, how did you resolve it?
[00:07:55] Speaker C: So different challenges. So in nurse, when I was in school to become a nurse, it was learning how to like buckle down and focus and actually study because it didn't come easy. You can't just go in like wing and you have to like know this because you have lives dependent on you essentially. So it was just buckling down and studying and then just make. It's like first time I like really lived on my own. When I went to undergrad, my parents house was literally within walking distance from my dorm room.
[00:08:22] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:08:23] Speaker C: So this was like my ability to like my first time, like branch it off on my own, living in a new state, studying, I'm like taking full ownership of myself. NP school was different because the first semester In a semester I was pregnant and I. That resulted in a. My son died shortly after being born and that was leading into finals week at the, like the beginning of the first semester. So finishing the program was mastering. Like, you're studying, I'm working prn. I went PRN after that. And then like grief and like, how do you manage all of that?
[00:08:57] Speaker B: So you had, you got, you got pregnant doing your MP program.
[00:09:01] Speaker C: It was. Yeah, I guess it would have been.
[00:09:03] Speaker A: Right.
[00:09:04] Speaker C: Leading into it. He was born at 21 weeks gestation and lived for maybe like a few seconds before he passed.
[00:09:10] Speaker B: Sorry to hear that, Ashley. Sorry to hear that.
[00:09:13] Speaker C: Yeah, so that was different. Grief of studying and like crying while you're trying to read what you're studying and remembering everything. So it's just different.
[00:09:23] Speaker B: And so you continue to stay in the program during that time?
[00:09:27] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, I'm competitive. Once I start something, I have to finish it too.
[00:09:31] Speaker B: I understand, I understand. Do you think that it kind of kept you busy as well? Because like they say that idle mind is the. Is the devil's playground.
[00:09:41] Speaker C: Yes.
So I ended up. So after my son passed, I ended up going like part time. I just did like the bare minimum, maybe like four shifts a week just to kind of like process my grief. And I would use the rest of the time to study and I would give myself like, okay, Ashley, you can only cry an hour today. You have work to do. So it kind of kept me focused on my goal.
[00:10:02] Speaker B: Gotcha.
Gotcha.
[00:10:04] Speaker A: Thank you for sharing that.
[00:10:05] Speaker B: Because they let others know that they can make it through it as well. Because you went on to get become a certified family nurse practitioner.
[00:10:13] Speaker C: Sometimes you just got to take it day by day, minute by minute.
[00:10:16] Speaker B: Yes, ma'. Am.
How do you take care of your mental and emotional health? Or how did you do? So, like, just coming through the program because I know there is so much more that you're here to share, because I didn't even know that and which I'm glad that you were, you know, willing to share that with us. How did you handle your emotional and mental health during that time?
[00:10:38] Speaker C: I went to therapy after my son died. I did it for a few months into the last session. My mind was like, okay, Ashley, you're going to be as healed as you're going to be, but just enough to like, take care of myself, have someone that isn't like, invested in my life, just have. Just give me a different perspective. It's good.
The other day today I was looking, I was like, okay, I think it's Time for a touch up, a tune up. Let me look up.
[00:11:02] Speaker B: So you don't have the same therapist on standby. It's like, who, who I need for right now.
[00:11:06] Speaker C: Like different therapists are for different seasons of your life sometimes like the first lady, the first lady who carried me through my child loss, I don't think she could carry me from where I've been since then. So. So I feel like the first therapist was good after I experienced the death of my first son, but I don't think she could carry me for what has happened since then, since the loss of my first son.
[00:11:29] Speaker B: When did you, you decide to get pregnant again?
[00:11:32] Speaker C: So you know, my husband and I, we tried to do like, you know, people don't necessarily tell you about miscarriage or infant loss. You think once you get past like the first trimester, all is well. And so I try you to do it the quote unquote right way. You get married, you have stable careers, you decide to have a family, and then your first baby dies. That shocks you to your core and it makes you question everything that you have ever known. And I was like, this baby was loved and wanted and you know, you going into labor and they were like, well, there's nothing we can do. And you deliver this baby and you watch him die. And my husband and I, we waited like three years before we decided to get pregnant again. And I had pcos, so I both times I had to undergo IUI to get pregnant and both times it only took one round. And so we waited until, yeah, I had just transitioned over to becoming a nurse practitioner. So that was 2018. And then maybe like I was there for a few months and then I started to do like IUI and quickly got pregnant and all was going well until my son came at 25 weeks gestation. So now he's viable, but almost exactly three years and one day or one month I should say. And I know as a nurse practitioner that when you send orders out into the abyss, like, you never see like the receiving end. So when, now I'm a nurse practitioner, I'm sitting at the nicu, I'm holding my baby and it's an open baby, you get to learn each and every one's stories. Like I would be there and I knew all the babies first names, like I knew all their stories. And you would see families come in, just say, how is my baby doing? And I was like, that's not enough question. You know, the nurse would necessarily, they can't give you like a 12 hour snapshot. They'll give you like. And I was like, you need to ask more questions. I wonder. I was like, this is not my like your baby just braided like 20 minutes ago. It's not my place but that. And then also my son. You know when you first get to the nicu, they say it's like a roller coaster. You're going to have your ups and downs. But for son, he was there for six months, I felt like we were free falling the whole time. Like he has like the scariest stuff. So like bilateral brain 3 and 4 and 4 are like the worst ones which led to him having like syphilis with the VP shunt, which led them having like PBLs. And at first, like when they first like, you know, he has great brain bleeds, it was like one in three and my husband was like, oh okay, that's whatever, that's fine. And then a couple of days later a 2 and a 4, a 3 and a 4 was like wait a minute, it's, it's still okay. Hydra stuffless. You're like holding your breath. But then when they bring in the pvls, you're like this is bad.
And they tell you all the bad things. Like son was going to be severely handicapped, won't be able to walk, talk, eat, see, pretty much breathe. Some of the doctors didn't even think that he'll be able to like manage his own secretions.
And I remember like scouring the Internet and finding every single like Facebook group about premature babies and I came across who had posted her three year old daughter and the picture she had the biggest smile and about how the daughter has like significant like brain tissue loss, how she has seizures, like all of these things. But she ended said, but she's healthy and she's loved and I, well then my sick baby looking at this little girl's picture on like my worst days and I was like eventually I want to be able to provide hope and encouragement to other families like that mom gave me. Yeah, we didn't know how insurance was going to work so my husband and I added both of our kid to both of our insurance plans. Ended up going back to work two months into the six month NICU and remind.
And so I'm treating all ages, so I'm treating new babies that are the same age as my baby and my baby's sick in the hospital and there's moms like.
[00:15:37] Speaker A: Hey, I interrupt this interview for a moment to just have a faith filled nurses note for you just to remind you that sometimes the most powerful care isn't clinical, it's spiritual. It's the whisper of prayer during a bedside charting moment. It's a gentle touch given with trembling faith. And it's the reminder that even when the monitor blinks, God never sleeps. And the scripture that I want you to reflect on is, she is clothed in dignity or with strength and dignity. She is clothed with strength and dignity. She can laugh at the days to come. And you can find this scripture in Proverbs 31, 25. And I believe Ashley embodies this promise not just as a nurse, but as a NICU mama, a widow, a mom of a child with special needs, and an author who's walked grief hand in hand with grace. In the nicu, time bends and faith stretches. As nurses, we're not just holding premature bodies. We're holding the weight of a parent's hope. And for every tube adjusted and every chart updated, there's an unseen prayer lifting it all up. So Ashley reminds us of this. And my question for you is, where has God met you in your life lately? In your scrubs lately? And what miracle did you witness that didn't look like one at first.
The next part is where it gets real. All right, let's get back to the conversation with Ashley o', Neal, the NICU Mama Pod podcast host. This is the next, because this next part is where it gets real.
[00:17:33] Speaker C: You know, my baby's constipated, and internally I'm thinking my baby literally just had brain surgery today. And it's like an out of body experience. Like, I remember just like looking down in the room and like, forcing myself to push aside, like, all of these emotions. Because they're coming to see Ashley, the nurse practitioner. They're not coming to see Colin's mom. And, you know, and in between patients, like, and I'm seeing like 18 the day. So in between patients, I'm like at desk, I'm pumping, I'm calling the NICU to get updates.
My baby. And so that kind of changes the way that you care for people because you understand it from a different perspective. Like, I'm on the patient side and you're at the mercy of everybody. And people think that being in the NICU is the hardest part, but it's the coming home part. It's the realizing that when you call the first person you talk to, they have no idea what you're talking about. And they're going to tell you something that's wrong and you have to decipher that it's wrong. And you have to, like, advocate for your baby in a way that people don't necessarily have the bandwidth to do or the ability. Like, I tell a story all the time where primary care insurance does not cover home health care nursing. So I had to figure out a way to pay for nursing so that I could go back to work. And so I met up with a family who had a kid with complex medical needs, and they told us about this waiver program, and it's only 200 spots in the state of Maryland, and gave me the information.
I called the lady and she was like, well, if you get discharged without being on what's called the RIM program, you're not going to qualify for this one. And if you do qualify, you're going to be at the bottom of the list.
So you need to immediately apply for the REM program, which is the rare and expensive case management. So I look it up, I fill out as much as I can, I drop it off to the NICU and they submit it. We got it approved a week before discharge, which was important because it gave us it was going to pay for home health care nursing when we got. Immediately when we got home. But it was also because we were at the beginning of that list. It was going to just over to be at the beginning of the model waiver program because we knew technically we were going to lose Medicaid because we made too much money. Not enough to pay for home health care nursing out of pocket, but enough not to qualify for Medicaid. And had we lost Medicaid, we would have been screwed. And so I called my job. I was like, hey, I need to go down to services. My case manager told me, once I get this, this letter, I need to go to social assist and to give us enough time to bridge us from one program to the next. So they cancel my patients for the morning. I go, and I'm like, outside the door, like, 20 minutes before it opens. Somebody walks by and they make a smart comment. It's a guy. I ignore him because I don't know who this is. And I didn't realize it worked for the social services. So I'm the first one in line. And she says, ma', am, like, how can I help you? I'm like, my name is Ashley. I'm here to apply for this program to bridge my son from one program to the next. And she goes, ma', am, there's no such program. You need to get health insurance. I'm like, ma', am, my son has two health insurance. Like, I need to apply for this program to bridge Me from this to this. And so she calls someone and then she says, ma', am, there's no such program. You need to get health insurance. So now I'm mad. Ma', am, I have two health insurance. I need this program. His case manager said this. So then that guy who made that snarky comment walks by.
And so she points to him, she's like, well, go tell him your story. And I'm in the middle of social services, like, my son has special needs. I need this program. He just looks at me like, there's no such thing. So now I'm really mad. So I pull out the email and I'm like, ma', am, this lady told me I need to sign up for this, this, this. She says, hold on. She calls someone. Five minutes later, she tells me I'm approved.
And that because you think about the mom who can't or the dad who can't take off work because they need the money or they don't have the type of job. What if when they first got there, the lady said, there's no such program, and they turned away. Like, they don't. They don't teach you that you have to, like, advocate for yourself. Yeah.
[00:21:30] Speaker B: And thankfully you were there because imagine that they just kept we don't have there's no such thing, and hung up. When somebody says that program don't exist, but you know that someone has already told you about it. Somebody has already explained this to you. Oh, man. And then to get approved within like minutes after they make a phone call, all because they didn't know the program exists.
[00:21:56] Speaker C: But that happens in so much. It's just as more than like the hospital billing, it's repeatedly calling your health insurance. Like, people don't know. The hardest part about taking care of a kid with special needs is not the physical care, it's not the hands on care. It's navigating these systems that were not designed for families like mine.
[00:22:14] Speaker B: You just said a lot. And so before we even keep going there, let's go back to the nicu. Tell us about your experiences in the NICU with the NICU staff, with the nurses, particularly the nurses.
If you were able to talk to a NICU nurse, what would you want them to know about their role and how they impact the families?
[00:22:45] Speaker C: So I loved all of our nurses. They literally held my hand. They listened to me cry like we were there 183 days.
And they would send me. They would take pictures of Colin and have him ready for me. They would make sure he had on his shoes, like. And I showed him the picture of my husband. He was like, where is he going? Why has he got on shoes? But it didn't matter. It paid me, right? And they took the time to do, like, the 100 days, like, the Mother's Day, the Father's Day stuff, right? And even when I was in, like, a bad mood.
And one day we just had, like, a bunch of, like, horrible, horrible news. And I had walked off to just, like, take a breather and use the restroom. And I came back, and the guy at the front desk like, hey, stop. You know, just stop a little bit. Just wait. And I peek around, and I can see that it looks like they're trying to get the new nurse to, like, put an IV in my kid. I was like, I don't know what they're doing, but they can stop, like, back away. It was. It was a bad week, and they expected that. They didn't hold it against me when I came back.
Yeah. And I remember the first nurse, like, you know, my kid was born weighing a pound and a half. He was born at a hospital, didn't have the capacity to care for him. And so they bagged him for the first hour of his life until the flight team came from another hospital.
And I remember them, like, willing. Willing him to my room, and I got to see him in the little incubator before they flew him to the different hospital. And, like, fast forward, like, I couldn't even hold him for the first week. And I remember, like, one nurse came up to me, and I was like, ashley, have you had your baby? Have you held your baby? And I was like, no. And she was like, well, you need to sit down. You need to hold your baby. I was like, is it going to make his brain bleeds worse? Like, I was so scared. And, you know, I'm not a neonatologist. I'm not a nickname. I was like, I know just enough to be scared, but not enough to, like, contribute, right?
[00:24:41] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:24:41] Speaker C: And she made me feel safe and comfortable in that moment, holding, like, my sick baby. And then, like, fast forward, you know, he had been there for a while. His shunt had got infected, and he had an external drain for, like, 10 days so he can get IV antibiotics.
And technically, you're really not supposed to. The baby has to be really still because the. The external grains are, like, by gravity, so you don't want to drink too much cerebral spinal fluid off. And so they, like, let me hold them, like, one time, and I was, like, surrounded by nurses. Like, they couldn't leave me alone. And. And he literally had to like lay on a pillow lap. They tried to make it special. And you know, my son is six now, so he's been home for five and a half years. Like I still keep in contact with some of the nurses.
That's awesome videos.
I knew like, especially when I went back to work. I live two hours away from the nicu like one way. So I couldn't go every day because I was working 10 hour days.
And they learned my schedule when I would call like I called one night pumping schedule, go use the bathroom. But I knew you were calling so I held off.
[00:25:50] Speaker B: That is so sweet.
So sweet. So you stayed two hours away one way. You went back to work within two months.
And Kylan, am I saying his name correctly? Kylan was there for six months.
Wow.
[00:26:08] Speaker C: The first two months I stayed in like the Ronald McDonald House in D.C. but yeah, awesome.
[00:26:14] Speaker B: And that's totally free, am I correct? The Ronald McDonald House, it's free.
[00:26:19] Speaker C: They do ask for like a 50 at the time, like 15 per night donation, which in D.C. hotels. That is trump change. I gladly wrote that check.
[00:26:26] Speaker B: Okay, so how have your, your personal experiences influenced your approach to patient centered care or health care in general?
[00:26:42] Speaker C: You kind of got to hear the rest of the story for that.
[00:26:45] Speaker B: The floor is yours, Ashley.
[00:26:48] Speaker C: My life is crazy. Okay, so Colin, you know, he came home at 6 months of age and we immediately started with outpatient PT OT like the next week after he was discharged he had early intervention calls. And so I took off six weeks when he originally came home to get him established. And then I'm back to work. So I was working three 9 hour or four 9 hour days and then for to DC for specialist appointments, audio stay. And it was hard working full time, essentially managing a kid with complex medical needs, managing your life. And then home health care nursing is another beast. That's a different type of nursing.
It's different than home. You know, I've never worked a job. You could just tell somebody you're not coming into work and still have a job. So that's a different beast. But anyway, my husband passed in her.
[00:27:34] Speaker B: House and wait time out unexpectedly like Ashley, I'm so sorry.
Was he, was Kylan there with him.
[00:27:47] Speaker C: In the home health care nurse?
[00:27:50] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:27:50] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:27:51] Speaker B: So did they witness it or were they able to?
[00:27:55] Speaker C: She didn't know.
No, my husband worked for the government. Every other Friday he was off. It was during COVID you know, he didn't. He was off. And so she had my. The home health Care nurse had brought his. Her. Her son to because he wanted to be an engineer. So my husband spent some time, like, tutoring in that day. And then she called me from work, like, hey, I haven't seen, you know, your husband in a while.
I went to the top of the stairs, called his name. He didn't answer. Maybe he's sleeping. But, you know, if I can, I would like to leave early.
And so I had a terrible day at work. A terrible day at work. And I wanted to stay and finish charting, and something was like, just go home. Go home. So I go home, I give her, like, an update, I go upstairs, and I'm expecting to, like, open the door and just see my husband, like, sleeping in the bed. And I open the door, and he was dead on the floor.
Had been dead for hours.
So.
[00:28:45] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm so sorry to hear this.
How old was Kylan when this happened, if you don't mind me asking?
[00:28:53] Speaker C: Months old.
[00:28:54] Speaker B: He just turned a year.
I'm so sorry to hear this, Ashley. Did they know what may have caused it? Were they thinking cardiac or undiagnosed?
[00:29:04] Speaker C: Cardiac. Genetic condition?
[00:29:06] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:29:06] Speaker B: Sorry to hear that, man.
The floor is yours, Ashley.
[00:29:14] Speaker C: So, because I had been through so much before, like, so when I first opened the door and I saw him, my initial thought was, of course, you know, because he. He literally died four years, so the same month as my son. And Colleen was in there. And so when I opened the door, I was like, of course, you know, dead son, sick son. Why wouldn't my husband die? And that was just numbness.
So for the first year or so after he passed, it was just, you know, I took three months off to get.
Just have time to, like, breathe and. But it's Covid. The world shut down. You have a sick kid, so you can't go anywhere, and you're just sitting in your house.
It's like, at least if I can go out and get some fresh air. And then I went back to work. I went down. It's like 36 hours at the time, I think. And I tried to balance it all. You know, my mom had moved in, so that's a different piece.
Living with your mama. Girl, like, I'm almost 40, okay? Like, I ain't your little girl anymore, but.
But leave Mama Al.
But, like, managing sick kid, all of these appointments, managing patients. And in Maryland, we have four practice authorities, so these are my patients. Like, I come up with the treatment plans, you know, and it was just, like, inundated of messages because it's covet so nobody wants to go to the hospital. So they're sending you paragraphs in the patient portal or they should have been seen, like in the ER over the weekend. That's how bad they are. But they stumble in your office on a Tuesday and they want you to work magic on them because they don't want to go to the er. I'm like, you almost did. Like, what? Yeah, what you want me to do? So I'm doing extra stuff. The babies are sick and I'm literally like, okay, Mom, I need you to go get a pulse ox. I need you to do this, this and this. And if it drops below this, like, I need you to go to er, but let's see if we can do the steroids around the clock. Nebs, let's see what we can manage. Because, you know, I live in a rural area, so the ER is like inundated. There's patients in the hallway, like, what are they? This a virus, right? Yes. The baby is sick, but I'm going to educate you as much as I can. Like, it drops below this. This is like when you really need to go, but let's do X, Y and Z and see if we can, you know, keep you out the hospital. But it was just like a whirlwind. And so finally, it was just stressful.
The patient slots are 20 minutes for like a follow up appointment. And the person that's 90, it take them 20 minutes to even walk to the room. So I found that I spent a lot of time outside of work charting because I like to meet patients where they are and I want to make sure they're educated. And, you know, I would see patients of our ages and races and they're like, you know, this is the first time that I felt seen or heard. And I had this one older black man come.
[00:32:01] Speaker A: He.
[00:32:02] Speaker C: He was like, I don't know if that lady gave me. They gave me all these mess. She tried to kill me. Don't let it kill me, Doc. Don't let him kill me. No, no. I was like, I'm a nurse practitioner, but let's get you meds together. Blood pressure was real high. I'm like, okay, I don't know what she doing, but let's start fresh. Got his blood pressure. Okay, good, right? But yeah, kill me.
But I felt God.
[00:32:24] Speaker B: It's like, no, your blood pressure is going to kill you.
[00:32:26] Speaker C: But he wasn't on the right combination of meds, though. And so I lasted there for half years. I couldn't do it anymore. It's like I.
I knew it was time to go when the little things that never used to make me grumpy was just making me mad. Like, I'm stressed sometimes. I'm walking out the door, he's having a seizure as I'm walking out the door. You can't go to work, so then you're canceling your patients. That's not fair.
There was one week where Kyla had the flu, and then all of a sudden he got like, rsv and we ended up in the hospital for like seven days and having to cancel all of those patients. I was like, you know what? Like, I woke up New Year's Eve day and whole body hurting from stress. I had to chart my kids playing on the floor by himself. And I was like, you know what? I don't have to live like this.
And so the first day back for, like, after the new year, I resigned. I gave my three and a half month notice, put me with the company overall for 10 years. So that's been about two years this past April that I quit.
[00:33:37] Speaker B: Wow. Wow.
Do you still practice any or you just focus on Kylan and now you have the podcast.
[00:33:48] Speaker C: But the podcast came later.
[00:33:51] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:33:52] Speaker C: When Colin first came home, I sat down and I took out a piece of paper and I wrote a whole children's book based off of his NICU's day. And I called it it's the NICU World, which is how I started, like, sharing my story online.
And it's like, once I let go of the job, I was able to, like, focus on myself, focus on Collins, and, like, all these ideas like, oh, you can finish this book now. You have time. And then once I started, like, sharing more of my story. Oh, I have a blog. It was like an Ask a Nikki Mama blog. And I would just email questions to moms and they would respond and I would post it. And then something was like, you should start a podcast. And I was like, what do I got to say? Who's going to listen? Right? What am I going to do? And it just kept nagging at me.
So at first I was planning on doing it by myself. And I post like, oh, you know, I'm going to start a podcast. It's going to launch on X Y today. And then people like, oh, I'll be on your podcast. I'll be on your podcast. So I was like, I guess I'm taking guests. Okay, I guess this is what we're doing. I don't know.
So, yeah, we are currently in season three.
[00:34:55] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:34:57] Speaker B: Yes. That is awesome. And it's like you turning your pain into purpose because so many other moms, so many other families, they need to hear the stories and know that they're not alone. So now that you ended up with the podcast and with is a nicu, it's a NICU world book, what impact do you wish to have on the healthcare community?
[00:35:24] Speaker C: So, and this kind of plays into it. I also wrote a journal to guide parents through their NICU stay. Because when I was in the nicu, I didn't feel like the parents knew what questions to ask. Like I don't know because there's some things they don't tell you that men and women handle the NICU differently. And so a lot of couples are button heads and some families don't make it intact once they're out of the nicu. No one tells you like how what self care can look like in that state when you're stressed. No one tells you like, hey, all NICU's are not created equal.
And I interviewed moms all the time or tell me something like, you know, we had a solid just round on us. Some don't, some barely have a social worker. They don't know like some of the programs that they may qualify for.
So I try to put some of that in the journal because I just want to create a space where families. The NICU is traumatic in within itself that we need to make it sure that the NICUs aren't adding unnecessary trauma. Like how are we meeting the needs of these people? Because it's not just a baby. You're literally, it's the whole family. Like the mom, the dad, the partner, whatever, like who's caring for like that family units and nobody prepares you for when you come home. No one says it's going to be hard, but you can make it through. No one says that even if all the bad things that the doctors predicted come to be, it doesn't mean you still can't find some joy and light into it. You know, they told me my kid was going to be X, Y and Z. But one of the occupational therapists who I love pulled me to the side and was like, ash, push aside. Like all the predictions you, the doctors have given you about Colin, your sole goal is to love him and give him all the necessary resources and he will show you what he's capable of. And that has carried me six years. And he is doing things that he's in first grade, you know, he's non verbal, he uses a communication device but he bosses me. Mom, iPad, please. And if I say no computer. Like, right. He bosses me around with a communication device. Right? And he. We are working on getting him back to, like, walking with the walker. So now, like, I've. We've been working all summer on how to get him to use his power wheelchair. And so yesterday we walked a mile and a half one way to go to the state park he likes. And he. He pushed himself with this little button all the way there. On the way back, he make me do it so he can play with his.
[00:37:55] Speaker B: Come on.
[00:37:57] Speaker C: You know, he can spell better than most.
[00:37:59] Speaker B: First he said he did it.
[00:38:02] Speaker C: And, you know, had I listened to what they're going to say, like, my baby's going to be X, Y and Z. And had I not done all of that, like, outpatient therapy, you know what I mean? And then I also want to advocate for things such as, like, Medicaid because they think only one demographic of people needs it. Like, I have three degrees and I would be broke if I didn't have Medicaid. Right. You know, and it's just like, such. I do a lot of Capitol Hill days, but I want to. To show like the rest of the world about this segment of people that they always push to, like, the wayside. Families with kids with disabilities. Right? Like, how much more can you take from the people? They're already struggling and everyone doesn't have the luxury to quit their job and can take their kids to intensive therapy programs that are three weeks that insurance may or may not cover.
[00:38:49] Speaker B: I'm so glad that you're here and able to share this with us. You know, I was just talking to a dad and he's even. He's known on TikTok talking about fatherhood and autism. He has a son with autism.
And shout out to Stan. But he did mention that his brother had to set him down and say, you know, say like, he has a son. But my son doesn't have autism, so I don't feel what you feel. But how do you get people to relate? Like, how do you get people to feel?
And so with that, he just, he focused on fatherhood, not having his father in his life, but being adamant about showing up for his own son with autism. And with that, he's drawn a large following from that and he's just passionate about it. And so I just really thank you for getting on here and just sharing your journey, because it's definitely one that I don't even know. I don't even know what to say.
Child passes on and then end up in the nicu with another child for six months and you are serving others. Like I just take, take my hat off to you. Like the resilience you have to have serving others and taking care of others and then to get home and clock in there.
[00:40:09] Speaker C: For me, it's therapeutic. It's like I have to get all of this out or I would probably self destruct.
So, yeah, and I want to show others that, yeah, grief and joy can coexist and it's not always easy because there's like the grief. It's like a person. Right. They're unwanted guests in your house, but never leave. And sometimes they're in the kitchen next to you and sometimes they retreat to the guest room, but they're always there and it's like, but how do you, how do you coexist with this person that's never going to leave you? And you have to try to find a purpose or make sense of that.
[00:40:52] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:40:53] Speaker B: I always use the analogy of we can't control the cards that were dealt, but how do we play our hand? Well, because we don't have control over the things, over the experiences that you've experienced or else they would have turned out differently. But with the hand that you've been dealt, you are playing your cards well. And that is, that alone is just showing others that it's possible to keep living and to keep moving life forward. And like you said earlier in the episode, just taking it one day at a time. You know, you said take it one step at a time. Thank you for sharing your story.
So what final thoughts do you have for our listeners today? Ashley?
[00:41:38] Speaker C: For the ones who are nurses or who are en route to become a nurse, what I will say is when you meet a person, you don't know what story they have. You don't know their past.
And so you have to just be kind and meet them where they are. And if you don't know something, say, hey, I don't know, but let me find out. Because patients know when you're lying, but just have compassion. Right. And I don't know if it's just because like all of the trauma that I've been to, but when like I see someone, like I sit with them, I can relate. And you're just kind of like having that spirit to spirit type of conversation. And so I feel like you should carry that with you as you navigate through your nursing journey. And if there are some moms or dads here who are raising kids with complex medical needs, the biggest piece of advice I can give you is to find your tribe. And your tribe may not be the person that you thought it would be. It could be, like, the strangers that I've met on Instagram, and now we meet up at Sesame Place yearly and take our kids. It can be the ones that you've never met in person, but you are emailing each other or texting each other, like, oh, you know, how does your baby surgery go? Like, what does this mean? Oh, I just found out this, and it works really good for my kid. Maybe you can try it. Or you have advice about this, Right? So it could be your tribe is a mixture of people that you probably haven't met yet, or people that you never meet in the flesh, but they're there for you.
[00:43:08] Speaker B: That's awesome. Thank you for sharing that. And like you said, it may be people that you. You don't even know, and they're more able to relate to you than your sister, your brother.
You have an open mind to even invite others in to share your journey with them as well as they're sharing their journey with you. And that creates an awesome bond.
[00:43:31] Speaker C: Because you can't travel this journey alone.
You would go crazy. Because it's already isolating when you have a kid with complex medical needs. It's already isolated because there's some place you can't go. There's some place that is just too much of a hassle because there's some people who don't understand, and there's some people they don't understand, but they still have empathy towards that journey.
It's different, but it's still isolating.
[00:43:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
So, Ashley, how can the all one nurse community support your work or help share your resources with NICU families?
[00:44:06] Speaker C: So I created the Ask a NICU Mama podcast. We are currently in season three where I talk about the highs and lows of raising a kid with complex medical needs. We talk about what to kind of expect in the NICU and life post discharge. I interview different NICU moms, dads, health care providers, authors, so on and so forth. We just had a malpractice attorney talk about whether or not you have a case. And so we are available on all major platforms, all major podcast platforms, if you'd like to be a guest or just check us out. Also, I have a book, It's a NICU World. It's a children's book. It is a great book to explain, especially if you have older kids, like, where is their sibling? Like, why aren't they coming home? Or if you have a NICU baby, when they get A little bit older. It's a good book to like read to them, just to kind of give them an understanding of what happened to them when they were first born. And then the guide, the NICU journal guide. It's over 200 pages, but at least 112 pages. It'll cover like 112 day NICU stay where on one page you can like document like the baby's vitals you can get prepared for because everybody has questions until the doctor comes in a room, right? So there's a place you can jot down your questions. What's the plan of care for the day? Who's the current attending, who's the current nurse, social worker, so on and so forth. And on the back you can kind of like journal your thoughts and your feelings. And then at the beginning is what I have, like the quick topics of how to nurture relationship, how to engage in self care checklist.
It gives you questions that you should ask your provider if you are just like lost. Like, what do I need to know? You can follow us on Instagram. It's at it's the Nikki World where you'll see my little beautiful son Colin and I talk about, for instance, like how to like 3 things to prepare for like the school year, things that I do. Stuff like that on TikTok is more of like my thoughts and my feelings, like more of like my grief journey.
And that is journey to healing, like 2016 or something like that.
[00:46:04] Speaker B: So your TikTok is totally different from Ask a Nicky Mama.
[00:46:08] Speaker C: So Instagram, it's Ask a Nikki Mama 2020. It's also it's the Nikki world. And on TikTok, it's just conversations with Ashley or Journey to healing.
[00:46:18] Speaker B: Thank you so much for joining us today, Ashley.
[00:46:21] Speaker C: Thank you so much for having me, Chanel.
[00:46:25] Speaker A: All right, let's get back to the conversation with Ashley o', Neal, the NICU Mama podcast host. This is the next because this next part is where it gets real, man. This episode was full of deep dives into grief. There are no words to really say.
And after a night of a few nights of rest, I've come to realize that that's okay too. To say nothing and to just listen. I genuinely thank Ashley for just getting on this episode of the All One Nurse podcast.
And don't forget to go check out her podcast, Ask a nicu Mama Podcast along with her guide and book with families who could use them. And be sure to share her guide and book with families who could use them. If it's not you, especially during their time in the nicu. I'm prompted, to be honest, I'm prompted to just buy a few of them and take them to some of the local NICUs in my area. Because we may not be able to do everything, we may not be able to be a part of everything, but we can always do one thing right, one thing to make another person's life better when we have the means to do so. So if this episode resonated with you in any way, please again consider subscribing and leaving a positive five star review to help others discover the All1Nurse podcast.
And just to tell you a little bit more about the podcast coming up Next, we'll have Dr. Samantha Calhoun, whom I call SA.
She has her doctorates in nursing practice, she's a nurse educator, a friend, and most of all a Sister in Christ. And I've been waiting to get her on here to share her wisdom with aspiring nurses and anyone who's just curious about the nursing profession. So don't forget to check out the links in the podcast description below for all things all one nurse how to connect with Ms. Ashley O' Neal and to find out about the mentorship program that I am relaunching in January 23rd where you don't want to miss out on taking that first step to your own personal and professional development, where we'll be unpacking nursing topics and some personal wins and barriers and becoming more spiritually grounded so that you'll be more prepared for the long haul of this game we call life. So if I may, let's just end this episode with a prayer as we bow our heads or keep looking at the road, depending on what you're doing at this time. Father God, we just come to you asking that the words of my mouth and the meditation of our hearts are acceptable in your sight. And God, I ask that you go before Ashley o', Neal, her mom, and Colin as they navigate life together. And God, I ask that you continue to give her everything that she needs, Lord Lord, as she is being a blessing to those in the same space as her God, I ask that you cover the listener that's tuning in today or that you will oversee everything concerning them that the Holy Spirit is interceding for the things that we know and know is not. Lord, I pray for your wisdom, your strength and your discernment regarding all things that we will make godly choices. God, that you would give us your godly strength to do the right things and to keep showing up and also the discernment to know when to say no to things so that we can make room for others.
So that we can continue to be our best self or become our best selves as we learn how to set boundaries. God, we thank you, we love you, we adore you. And I just lift up this episode and everyone connected to all one nurse in Jesus mighty name, Amen. And until next time, let your light shine.
[00:50:51] Speaker C: Sam.
