[00:00:00] Speaker A: This is the All1Nerds podcast, where we are bridging the gap between the stethoscope and the soul and getting back to the human side of healthcare.
Powered by Riverside.
[00:00:33] Speaker B: Hey friends, welcome back to the All One Nurse Podcast, where I'm your host, Chanel Tompkins, and we're continuing to bridge the gap between the stethoscope and the soul and getting back to that human side of healthcare. Now, on today's episode, we have a guest who is a powerhouse in nursing leadership, education and innovation. Ebony Gonzalez is a dedicated registered nurse with over 15 years of experience spanning acute care, informatics and nurse management.
A proud Marine Corps veteran, Ebony brings discipline, heart and vision to everything that she does. She is also the founder and business development representative of the Nurse Preceptor, llc, a company born from her passion to support Novus nurses and their preceptors. Her signature creation, the Bad Meckam Journal, is a guided resource designed to help new graduate nurses navigate their first year with clarity and confidence. Now, with an MBA in Healthcare Management, board certification in nursing informatics, and a deep commitment to mentorship, Mrs. Ebony is on a mission to transform how we support the next generation of nurses. And whether she's collaborating with hospitals or leading workshops or developing continuing educational resources, her work is rooted in her compassion strategy and most importantly, lived experience.
So go ahead, click, subscribe from wherever you're tuning in from on your favorite podcast platform, Whether it's on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or Amazon Music. And thank you to those who are already faithful followers of the All One Nerds Podcast. And don't forget to share the this episode with a fellow nurse or student or someone who's curious about healthcare. And be sure to listen all the way to the end for a sneak peek of what's to come. Up next on All One Nurse. And the awesome giveaway that's happening around the time of this podcast episode release.
So let's get right into it.
[00:02:53] Speaker A: Welcome, Mrs. Ebony. How are you?
[00:02:55] Speaker C: I am well. How are you today?
[00:02:57] Speaker A: I'm doing great. We're so excited to have you here on the All One Nurse Podcast.
[00:03:01] Speaker C: I am so honored to be here. I really thank, thank you, thank you, thank you for having me here. I'm nervous, but it's all good.
[00:03:07] Speaker A: It's okay. It's okay. We're just having a conversation. And thank you for being here to share your journey, your story, your insights, and your vision for the future of nursing. Because it's like we both are aligned when it comes to wanting to pour into the future of nursing, which is our future nurses. So jumping right into your professional journey and personal insights, tell us a little bit about you. Like, can you take us back to the beginning to what inspired you to pursue nursing?
[00:03:35] Speaker C: Sure. Yes. Well, me, I. I come from a family of nurses. I guess you could say it's my destiny. So my grandma was a nurse. I have an uncle that's a nurse. My mom was a nurse. It's just come from a family of nurses. But crazy fact, or I guess you could say fun fact. I want it to be a Barbizon model. All right, so like, a Barbizon model. So when I was younger, we had, like, word up and all of these different magazines, and they have ads, you know, become a Barbizon model and stuff like that. So, you know, you know, you fill out the little piece of paper, you cut it out of the magazine, you mail it, and then like, after some months or so, listen, they'll let you know when they're in your area. So they were in the area. And my mom, she took me. I was so pretty. I was so pretty. And, you know, I never forget them talking to me and, oh, everyone loves you. Everyone loves you. You'd make a great hand model. Like, no, I want it to be Tyra. I want it to be Naomi Iman.
[00:04:34] Speaker D: Right?
[00:04:34] Speaker C: I'm too short. I can't be. I can't. I cap too short. And do come from a family of little people. So, like, I'm just too sure. So it didn't work out.
So, yes, that didn't work out. So I guess nursing became my, you know, it sealed deal for me. But my moment for me came with my grandmother. She'd had a tumor on her brain, and so they did a craniotomy, and I stayed with grandma. So, you know, we're one of those families where someone's in the hospital, someone's there. Right. Something was there, and that was me. My grandma was always my best friend.
So I stayed there at the hospital with her for like a month. And the nurses were always there. They would always tell me, you know, if she does this, if this happens, if they call us. But I watched them take my grandma from paralyzed after that surgery to my grandma's back functioning, walking faster than ever before. And so I wanted to become a nurse to make others feel like those nurses made me feel, to perform what I thought was a miracle at the time.
That's when I wanted to be a nurse. Yeah.
[00:05:38] Speaker A: Wow. That is amazing. It's like not only was it in you to be a nurse. But even that experience probably just put the ice in the gap. Definitely. Thank you for sharing. Now, how has your nursing journey evolved over the past 15 years?
[00:05:55] Speaker C: It doesn't seem that long though. You know what I mean? Like in the context of it all, it really doesn't seem long. But in that 15 years I've been staff nurse to leadership and becoming a nurseman, Informatics and now I guess you could say entrepreneurship. So. And each role teaches me something different, helps me to see nursing in a different way. For example, when you're a staff nurse, your nursing journey is only about you. You're only concerned about you and your own practice.
[00:06:23] Speaker D: Right.
[00:06:24] Speaker C: And then as a nurse manager, you are dealing with the entire unit. You are responsible for 50 something people. You're also responsible to, to the, to the guys upstairs. You're responsible to other, to make you know what I mean, to other disciplines. And then informatics is a totally different world. Yeah. And so each of those little journeys, these little stops have allowed me to see nursing in a different light. Yeah. Oh, definitely.
[00:06:50] Speaker A: I mean, you went from staff nurse to nurse to nurse manager to informatics. And so what exactly do you do now?
[00:06:59] Speaker C: I'm an informatics nurse, but I do do some moonlighting as a staff nurse. So I do do some PRN work just to keep my, I guess you could say to keep my skills current because I can't sit here and write blogs and talk to new grad nurses if I don't understand. It's easy to armchair quarterback, right?
[00:07:21] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:07:22] Speaker C: But you have to actually be in it and experience what they experience. Even as a nurse manager, I continue to work, I work 12 hour shifts. I picked up shifts with my staff because I can't advocate for them. I can't say, you know, and go sit in a meeting and speak on their behalf if I don't know what they're doing. I'm in it with them. So I know what we as a floor are going through.
[00:07:44] Speaker A: That is awesome and that's powerful that you want to stay connected to current practice, to what they are actually experiencing at the bedside. I asked the nurses, how are you doing? The ancillary staff, how is it going? And I listen, I just listen to their concerns, I listen to how their day is going.
Because when I'm in this staff development specialist role and we're having meetings and we're on these committees, when it, when you're not the one that's actually being affected by it. And so it's like, I love when we Invite those bedside nurses. But again, like you said, staff nurses are only concerned about them. It's hard to even get them to sometimes come to a staff meeting, depending on the culture of the unit. So it's like, how do you keep that connection? Thank you for sharing. Sharing your. Now, you were in the Marine Corps.
[00:08:31] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:08:32] Speaker A: So from being a Marine Corps veteran to nurse manager and now in informatics and founder of the Nurse Preceptor llc, how have those diverse experiences shaped your leadership style?
[00:08:45] Speaker C: Well, the Marine Corps really instilled the importance of leadership by example.
[00:08:49] Speaker D: Right.
[00:08:50] Speaker C: Being able, knowing the way.
[00:08:51] Speaker D: Right.
[00:08:52] Speaker C: Know which way to go, going that way and then showing the way.
[00:08:56] Speaker D: Right.
[00:08:56] Speaker C: Knowing how to do it and showing others how to do it. So leading by example, that is my primary leadership style. Now, as a founder, I guess you could say with the Nurse Preceptor, it's most. It's a coaching mindset focused on building others. But my, I will say my leadership style, it changes to fit the current situation. Right. So in some instances I have to be an authoritarian.
[00:09:19] Speaker D: Right.
[00:09:20] Speaker C: There's just no time to get ideas, to collaborate with others. Is this is what it's going to be. And then other times it's just laissez faire. So for me, it all depends on the situation, which leadership style I will employ.
And at the same time, I think being able to pivot between leadership styles, I think that's a leadership characteristic that anyone should have. Being able to read the room and know, okay, this is a. I can trust them to do what they need to do or let me get their input, let me let them do it. I'll stand back or I need.
This is how it has to go right now. So just being able to read the room and then adjusting your, you know, your style to it. Yeah.
[00:10:00] Speaker A: Thank you. Now, while we're on leadership, when we have new grads and they're facing challenges on the unit and then they feel like they're not being heard in management, which my husband would speak on, is hard to really manage individuals nowadays. What advice would you have for nurse managers in this healthcare. In the healthcare scheme that we're in? And how do you hold the staff accountable without fear of losing your staff?
[00:10:26] Speaker C: So that is something.
It's important that you know your staff, right. And it starts with your. It starts with interviewing. You know, it starts with interviewing a person. You're interviewing this person, you're getting a good idea of who they are, what approach we're taking, which preceptor am I putting them with?
[00:10:46] Speaker D: Right.
[00:10:47] Speaker C: So you just have to know that individual, know their strengths, know their weaknesses. So you will man. Well, you will lead these individuals differently based on who they are, right? So you lead the pack as a whole. Like I said, it all depends on the situation, how we, how we do work, you know, depending on what the issue is or what the mission is, what we need to do. But dealing with managing individuals is you have to know your people. So some nurses, I can, I have to really spoon feed sugar coat, but never lie.
[00:11:22] Speaker D: All right?
[00:11:23] Speaker C: Spoon, feed, sugarcoat, never lie. And then others give it to them straight, this is what it is, you know what I mean? And they get it, you know what I mean? They're not beating around the bush with you, you know, you, you know what I mean? So at all, you just have to. It's very important to know your staff. But as far as accountability, it is being fair, firm and consistent. Everyone knows what is expected, right? Everyone knows. Like one thing I will say with me as a nurse manager, you were talking about getting them to come meetings to me. I came to them. I held four a month. So they were always on the weekend because everyone had a Saturday, Sunday, right? So I always did Saturday, Sunday. So two weekends would be day shift, two weekends I'd work a 12 hour night shift. We would do our staff meetings. And so that's where I would pass word. That's where this is the word. I've said it one time, I'm not saying it again. We're not going through this again. Right, but that's that marine thing too.
So that's you. Everyone knew that. I said it. We're not talking about it again. This is our verbal, all of you, you, you signed in, you got this word. Next time we talk about it, we're moving on. So it's just being fair, firm, consistent. Nothing's a surprise, right? You just can't. A big problem I see nowadays, honestly with management is we're trying to be friends. And that's, it's, it's not actually, it's not okay. We, we should not be friends. There has to be a clear deline of responsibility, you know what I mean? Because if I treat you different than what I treat, say, Erica, you know, then Erica could go to hr, you know, she could get a, an employment lawyer and say, well, you've done this. You're, you're, you know what I mean? You're inconsistent, you know, so that's what I'm saying. Being fair, firm, especially the consistency. So that when you do something, it's already expected. It's not a surprise to anyone.
[00:13:17] Speaker A: That was very well put and gave a lot of insight to the management part of it. Because I always joke and say I don't want to be a manager because it's hard to manage people versus teaching them. Like, I can teach you all day long, and it's up to you to want to go out and do the right thing. Once I've taught you how to do something, managing people still decide whether or not they want to do it, and that's where it becomes hard. But I love how you said, be fair, firm and consistent.
[00:13:48] Speaker C: Yes. Oh, yes.
[00:13:49] Speaker A: Seems like that alone will make it easy because regardless of who you are, this is the expectation and you're not showing partiality. And we still have a vision, a mission that we're fulfilling for that organization. Thank you for the leadership speak because we need it and I know someone will benefit from that. Thank you. Getting back to our new nurses, what was the pivotal moment that led you to create the Nurse Preceptor llc?
[00:14:17] Speaker C: I'll say it started with something that I wanted to do with my facility. Working in informatics, you have this different view. You're on the outside looking in.
[00:14:27] Speaker D: Right.
[00:14:27] Speaker C: You're not in it as a staff nurse. You're not dealing with your floor and other units. You're just on the outside looking in.
[00:14:36] Speaker D: Right.
[00:14:36] Speaker C: You're armchair quarterbacking, I guess you can say. But yeah. So, like, month after month, I'm sitting in this committee, you know, and we review these safety, these patient safety occurrences, you know, monthly meeting. And it seemed like anytime there was something that involved a new nurse, the response to it, we'd have the nurse managers partake in a small, like, root cause analysis, a mini root cause. Explain to us how this happened, what happened. And it seemed like the excuse, you know, the reason would always be, oh, you know, this was a new nurse, you know, like, that's okay. And for me, like, no, this, this is not okay. It's two of them. You got a preceptor and you got a new nurse. So what was the preceptor doing? How did the, how did the preceptor allow this to happen? You know, so I, I was never, I. I'm never on board with someone saying someone is new. That person has the good. You just handed them policies, right? This person just came out of a long orientation and they're with someone. So for you to say, oh, they're new, no, no, no, where's the precept? So I just couldn't get on board with those answers. So I recommended, hey, maybe we should start a structured preceptor program. It's something that, you know, that I had gone through previously at another facility that I worked out, worked at. And I really feel it really developed me very well, that program. But it's nothing that they wanted to entertain. They were. They were not about that life. And so me. It is what it is. But me being me, I'm gonna. I'll do it myself.
Yeah, I will get it myself. I will. You know, and so that's where the. That's where the nurse preceptor. That's where that concept came from. It was originally intended to assist preceptors because I will die on the hill with my stance that it is a preceptor that makes or breaks a new nurse. It is. That is my stand. I will die on it. I will. We will go. We will go to bed on it.
Seriously. Now. Now, there. Of course, we know there are some nurses that just can't get it, that will never get it. You know, that this may not be the thing for you. Maybe you need to try a different specialty. We get it. But this all. It started as a blog. You know, it was a blog for. For preceptors with a vision for just webinars to develop preceptors. That's where it all started. But, well, I'd already had an idea of what it would look like, what I wanted it to be, but I just need it more. So I started joining these, like, new nurse graduate Facebook groups. And, you know, I started lurking around Instagram and Twitter. At the time, it was Twitter's 2020. January 2020. Everything was going so well for me until March. But anywho, you know, until Covid. Right. Everything was doing what it was supposed to do. Yeah.
[00:17:18] Speaker A: We don't talk about Bruno.
[00:17:19] Speaker C: We ain't gonna talk about Bruno. Yes. And we gonna talk about. We ain't gonna talk about it, but, you know, just lurking around for research, you know, and just reading, you know, nurses were, you know, saying, you know, preceptors were new too. You know, she's six months experience. And then they're complaining about being tossed around between preceptors and being told two different things. So they're reaching out to strangers on the Internet. Not from their same state.
[00:17:45] Speaker D: Right.
[00:17:46] Speaker C: Not from their same facility.
[00:17:48] Speaker D: Right.
[00:17:48] Speaker C: So we're there. I'm watching people reach out to strangers, not knowing if we're in the same state. Same scope of practice.
[00:17:55] Speaker A: Right.
[00:17:55] Speaker C: You know, stories of Being belittled. It was just going on and on. And I was like, I gotta help these people. Like, we got a problem, problem. You know, so, you know, so I put the preceptors on the back burner and focused on the new nurses. Because no one comes into this profession thinking, how can I mess up today? You know, no one comes into this profession feeling like I want to learn absolutely nothing.
[00:18:19] Speaker D: Right.
[00:18:19] Speaker C: So they really want to do the right thing. They really want to succeed. So they just need guidance. So that's how all of this came to be. It started with preceptors, but realizing our preceptors are just as young and, you know, our precept, it just seemed like a bigger problem that we needed to address the new grads first and then we'll work with the preceptors. That was. That's my vision, I guess you could say later.
[00:18:42] Speaker A: Yeah, and that's awesome because thank you for sharing that. And I love that you are working with the new nurses because guess what? As they are coming through orientation or they're right now they're being precepted, they're going to be the same ones that's going to become the preceptor. And so pouring into them now, you are pouring into preceptors per se, because they will be precepting that pretty much. And you'll give them. You're giving them the tools to start out, and you're giving them a good foundation to start with because they're probably going to take the resources that you're providing them and they're going to be give that resource to their mentee or orientee on down the line.
[00:19:24] Speaker D: Right, right.
[00:19:26] Speaker A: So that's awesome. That is awesome. Let's see. Tell us more about your purpose, Vade Mecum Journal, and what gap you again you were hoping to fill for graduate nurses.
[00:19:38] Speaker C: Yes. So I created Vade Mackam, the journal. Let's talk about Vade Mackham. That's the name. So the name, it's actually, it's. It's Italian. And so I was trying to figure out what would this journal like, what would this little, you know, what would this thing be called? And you know, at first my first thought was Random Access Memories. And I was gonna have my son draw a picture of a brain and, you know, just different things coming out of it. But I was like, Random Access Memories. I was like, you know, there is an album called that I don't want to get in trouble for copyright. And you know what I mean? So I was like, let me figure out something else. So I was like, what is this? You know, what is it? And so it is a handbook, basically.
And so I found a definition for handbook. And so that is vade mecum.
[00:20:22] Speaker D: Right?
[00:20:23] Speaker C: I love it. And so that's what this is, a definition.
[00:20:26] Speaker D: Right.
[00:20:26] Speaker A: And so useful information, huh?
[00:20:29] Speaker C: Kept at one side.
[00:20:30] Speaker A: Kept at one side.
I love it.
[00:20:32] Speaker C: Yeah. And it literally means go with me. So vade macum means go with me. It's translated go with me. And so I thought that was just the coolest thing, learning that. I try to do little off the wall stuff. I'm like, that I created it. Yeah, yeah. So that's how. That's how this name came to be. Was trying to figure out, what does this mean? What would this mean for a new grad, right? So that's one thing about me when I was trying to figure out, you know, like, okay, I need to help these people, but how? And so I sat back and I thought, you know, well, what helped you? And, you know, I reached back to the Marine Corps. I'll never forget, I had Chief Warrant Officer. He handed us all these little composition notebooks and he said, you write everything down.
[00:21:16] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:21:16] Speaker C: You know, he would tell you, write everything down. When we're sitting here and we have, we, you know, we're in formation and I'm telling you something, you write it down. So if I tell you something different, you come back and you say, well, no, on this date, you told us. You know what I mean?
I've taken that with me. And I will tell you, I have notebooks all over the place. So I still have my very first notebook from when I was a new grad. And I filled that thing, I filled this thing with a lot of stuff from my own experiences with my journal. You know, when I became a charge nurse, I have a journal for being a charge nurse. I have a journal for when I became a nurse manager.
[00:21:56] Speaker D: Right?
[00:21:56] Speaker C: Learning through the hr, you know, learning those types of things. And then informatics. You should see how big that journal is. I have a journal now for just being an entrepreneur, right. I run my own website, so I had to write down how do I navigate WordPress, how do I do these different things? So basically, this journal, so Vade Meckham created it to support nurses progressing from that initial stage of novice to competent. Remember, you don't have to be fresh out of nursing school to be a novice, right? You become a novice when you go from med surg to icu. You become a novice when you go you know what I mean?
[00:22:33] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:33] Speaker C: So you, you, you. I became. I was a novice when I went from staff nurse to nurse manager.
[00:22:38] Speaker D: Right.
[00:22:39] Speaker C: I can go kick butt on med surge all day long, but I. I can't tell you nothing, you know, getting the babies. I. I can't help you.
[00:22:46] Speaker A: I can't help you either.
[00:22:47] Speaker C: I can't help you.
[00:22:48] Speaker B: So I couldn't help myself.
[00:22:51] Speaker C: Okay, Tell me, girl. Let me tell you talk about that. Okay? Okay. Sidebar, Sidebar. I remember my oldest son. He was like. He was like 7 years old, and he was just for his, well, child appointment. I'm a nurse, but I'm med surge. And so I got him sitting there and my baby's here for his well child. And she checks his blood pressure. It was 70 over. It was like 70 over 50. And she's just moseying about, and I'm looking at her like, what you doing? And then I finally. I said, ma', am, I said, what you doing? And she's like, what? I said, do you see this blood pressure? And she. And I said, are you okay, boy? I said, are you calling the ambulance? And she's like, that's a normal blood pressure, you know? Oh, my God. I'm over here dealing with 120s, 150s, 180s over 95. Yeah. You know what I mean? He over 70, over 50. I'm like, the hell you doing? Like, you better do something right. That's that. You know, I passed that class in nursing school. But, you know, when you've been dealing with grown folks all this time, it's not your thing.
[00:23:51] Speaker A: Yes, yes.
[00:23:52] Speaker C: So this is. This book is for. For, you know, for novices to help them progress from that stage of novice to competent. It's basically a mean to self thinking about. Yeah. Thinking about those. Those.
Those nurses who. Especially the ones who get pulled between multiple preceptors.
[00:24:13] Speaker D: Right?
[00:24:14] Speaker C: This one is telling me this. This one is telling me this. Write stuff down.
[00:24:18] Speaker D: Right?
[00:24:19] Speaker C: So we also have areas in here for you to cite policies, right? I'm asking, what's the. What's your policy number four, right? So that you can know where to go to. And then we have problems with focused worksheets so that you can become an expert, learn to anticipate things on those things most commonly seen on your units. So it's basically for you, to assist you, but also tons of note space. Like, there's a lot of stuff in here, but tons of note space for you to write down the things that are important to you.
[00:24:50] Speaker D: Right.
[00:24:50] Speaker C: So there are things that you and I can be sitting in the same class and we write down two different things.
[00:24:57] Speaker A: Yes, ma'. Am.
[00:24:57] Speaker C: Because some things will stick with us. We'll never let it go. Let me write, you know, other things. Let me write that down. So it is a personalized experience. A lot of note space in here. But we have things that are structured and, and guided for them to guide them along their ways. For those nurses that are under supported by their organizations, they don't know what they don't know. And sadly, we're seeing preceptors don't always have the means to guide them either.
[00:25:25] Speaker D: Right.
[00:25:25] Speaker C: So if you look at my blog, I have one that's, you know, task oriented preceptors create task oriented nurses. You know, so if you're somebody who's simply just going through the motions of 8 o', clock, we do this right here and then we do this and then we do this. You're just teaching that person tasks. You're not explaining to them why we're doing this. They're, they don't know why this is occurring. So helping them with the why, because it's very difficult and it's very disheartening, you know, lurking around those, those forums and stuff, just seeing the questions they're asking and they're getting from total strangers, not knowing. You have a scope of practice, you are in a different state. You can't be looking at YouTube because, you know, what does your policy, what does your organization say? And that's what this is for for you, your personalized experience for you.
[00:26:16] Speaker A: Thank you for sharing, man, that is awesome. So for my listeners, where can they find this awesome journal, the Babe Meckam Journal?
[00:26:24] Speaker C: This journal can be found on my website, thenursepreceptor.com awesome.
[00:26:29] Speaker A: And my dear listener, tune in to the very end because you may be able to get your hands on one for free. I'm just saying I may be feeling like, feeling, feeling nice. But thank you so much, Mrs. Ebony, for telling us about the journal. Now, what are some challenges you see new nurses face during their transition and how can preceptors better support them?
[00:26:54] Speaker C: Mainly, I want to say that the common themes are lack of direction and they're facing imposter syndrome. They feel like they don't belong, but at the same time, we have to realize what they're going through. Like they're trying to learn policies, they're learning procedures, they're trying to learn time management. And on top of all of that, they're having to manage people.
[00:27:15] Speaker D: Right.
[00:27:15] Speaker C: And we're not even talking about patients. We've got to deal with family members, we've got to deal with our co workers.
[00:27:21] Speaker D: Right.
[00:27:21] Speaker C: And then emotions, they have to put their own emotions in check. They're dealing with things they've never seen for the very first time. Start. They're questioning themselves. Definitely imposter syndrome and lack of direction. And so, like I said, preceptors, they will make or break that experience.
And, you know, to best support them, the best thing they can do is just be consistent and provide emotional safety. Let them know that you bring up the conversation yourself. Explain to them, you know, I, I understand you're probably feeling by now, you know, by saying by now, you're probably feeling and, and what you're. This is normal. Coaching them through reality shock. Because when that shock hits, it hits like it is. Because remember, we all go into nursing, we can't wait to start an IV and we can't wait to put that Foley in, and we can't wait to do skill, skill, skill, skill, skill.
[00:28:18] Speaker D: Right?
[00:28:19] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:28:19] Speaker C: And then when we have to understand, answer the question of why are you putting I.V. in?
[00:28:25] Speaker D: Right.
[00:28:26] Speaker C: Why does this patient need a Foley? That's when they're like, well, you know, they're so excited to do it, but don't know the why behind it.
[00:28:33] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:28:33] Speaker C: And so that's when that reality shock hits, when they don't understand why, why don't I know? Everyone seems to be getting it except for me. And so that's where we have to do better in explaining, rationale, preparing them for what they will go through. Explaining to them what you're feeling is totally normal.
[00:28:53] Speaker A: That's true.
[00:28:53] Speaker C: But, yeah, mainly validating their feelings and just giving them feedback with context. One nurse wrote a couple of days ago that she was asked why she did something, and then the nurse told her, well, I do it this way because I want to know about my patients. Why would you say that? Why would you do that to a person?
[00:29:11] Speaker A: Right.
[00:29:12] Speaker C: You are molding this person where everything that she becomes is a direct reflection. You're turning this person loose to the rest of us. So what does that say about you, about the person that you're putting out out here for the rest of us? And it's just. I think it's just we have to do a better job of just validating their experiences and letting them know that what they're going through is totally normal.
[00:29:36] Speaker A: That's awesome. I love how you said you have to give them feedback with context. Yes. And I also tell the preceptors because I help facilitate nursing orientation in the critical care setting. And a lot of new nurses, they want critical care, they want these high patient acurity settings, units like er. I always tell them to make sure that they give them constructive criticism. But you do have to critique them. You do have to write it down. If you, if the preceptor and the orientee are not meshing, I'm like, okay, where's the paperwork? Like, what, what was the goals? What were the improvements? What were the barriers for the week or for that, that moment, that event? Like, I need to know and you both need to know. You have to write it down in order to see where we're going, to see where you're going and to have that transparency. Because the last thing that I want to see for my orientees is, is that they're struggling. And then when they do sit down and have this conversation of, well, you're not communicating well with the providers, you're not communicating well with the patients and the family and they'll say, well, nobody told me as a preceptor, you have to have those conversations with them, but lead with something that they're doing well, then list their, what they need to improve on and then list their goals moving forward. Because you always want to, like they say, lead with a positive, then include the negative, but end with the positive because we have to build them up. You can't just leave them with negatives all the time.
[00:31:10] Speaker C: That is true. And you know, it's so, it's crazy the way you explained it. That's the power of that word. And right. So like you said, lead with the positive.
[00:31:18] Speaker D: Right?
[00:31:18] Speaker C: So like you did such a great, I, you did such a great job working with the family, talking to the family about yada, yada, yada, and you could make it better by right, so I'm going to work with you to do xyz. So next week we're going to do xyz.
[00:31:36] Speaker D: Right?
[00:31:36] Speaker C: So you did a great job and we can make it better by Right, so you know what I mean? Instead of you did it, you did a great job. But yeah, you know what I mean?
But. So that's the difference between but and and, you know.
[00:31:49] Speaker A: Yeah, I love it. I like that use. And instead of but my preceptors, who's tuning in? Okay, now I have a, like a bonus question for you, like a thought provoking question. If you could design a simulation that every nurse, new nurse had to complete before stepping onto the floor, what would it include? And what emotion or mindset would you want them to walk away with?
[00:32:15] Speaker C: I built something, and this is something that I'm trying to do right now. I'd build something rooted in chaos theory.
So a small error at the start that affects everything and everyone else, right? So, for example, in the error, a patient, the nurse enters the weights the patient's weight incorrectly, right?
We put in 2:17 instead of 127. The patient gets admitted.
[00:32:40] Speaker D: Right.
[00:32:41] Speaker C: And so the goal is to show what I'm trying to evoke and get them to understand is how interconnect that nursing truly is with every other discipline that you're not in this silo, that weight affects what the dietitian's gonna do. If that patient gets on heparin, you got a problem. Problem, right? How this one little thing can affect everything and everyone else. So how just a simple keystroke can shift everything. So I think I love chaos theory because it's just showing how at the beginning of a process, something went wrong at the beginning of a process, and it affects everything else that comes behind it. So I. I think something like that would. I would love to do something like that.
[00:33:26] Speaker A: I love that. Because one way that I believe new nurses learn is by others experiences or mistakes. And so they learn through stories. Like, I can tell you all day long, you have to get a blood pressure with this beta blocker to keep the patient safe. But then when you come back with an experience that the nurse did not get the blood pressure, the blood pressure was actually 90s or 90s systolically already. And they gave the beta blocker and the patient blood pressure bottomed out, as we like to call it. Had to be mrt, had to get ebolas, had to be transferred to ICU because they wasn't responsive to fluids. And then they're like, oh, okay, I need to get that blood bridge. Like, okay, I'm gonna remember that versus, hey, this. This statement versus this story that goes along with this statement. But my hopes is that they will begin to just see it as very important.
Very important. A lot of the things that preceptors are trying to teach them, a lot of the things that they sit in orientation and they're supposed to be listening to. And this is me getting on to my new nursing home.
[00:34:31] Speaker C: Should be writing it down. Should be writing it down. Writing it down, writing it down.
[00:34:36] Speaker A: Should be paying attention. Because a lot of the hospital orientation, a lot of the classes are all going to have policy embedded in them. And so if you're not paying attention in class, for example, in critical care class. And then your preceptor is showing you something one way, another nurse is showing you something another way because that preceptor is going on vacation or out sick. Then you will have, you could have your notes to say, oh, okay, we actually went over arterial lines and this is what I learned in class. And you can have that conversation as a new nurse. So again, just owning, owning your orientation process. But again, it's also hard, like you said, because you don't know what you don't know. But also write down everything that is being told to you so that you can have something to go back to, reflect on. Like you said, going back to the Marine Corps. Hey, if they say something different, you say, wait a minute, but on this day you said this, right? So writing things down will empower that individual. Just like you. I have notes from when I've started orientation in different units. Now tell us a little bit about your patient perspective. As someone who has worked in multiple settings, including, including informatics and still working at the bedside some. How do you balance clinical intuition with data driven decision making?
[00:35:55] Speaker C: Well, it's, I would say it's difficult to balance. It's more like you dancing with it, right? You playing with it.
Data, Data is awesome in that it gives you patterns and structure. I mean, you can even find trends in dirty data. But clinical intuition, that's that gut check, right? So that's that, that thing that says, yeah, something, something's not right here, even though your data may show something else.
[00:36:21] Speaker D: Right?
[00:36:22] Speaker C: So, you know, with data. My approach is to allow data to inform my judgment, but don't replace my judgment.
[00:36:29] Speaker D: Right.
[00:36:29] Speaker C: It's magical, it's almost biblical, right. When you assess your patient and your assessment shows warning signs, right. You know, you see patients developing early signs of sepsis or they're going down, and then you hit those labs and you look at the vital sign trend and the data confirms it.
[00:36:50] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:36:51] Speaker D: Right.
[00:36:52] Speaker C: So there is nothing more magical than allowing the data to confirm it. But don't allow the data to be the thing that, you know drives you. Because the data can be dirty. The data is only as good as the person that enters it.
[00:37:09] Speaker D: Right.
[00:37:10] Speaker C: You know, it's only as good as that individual. You know, we in informatics, constantly fixing, you know, this, this immunization is in the wrong chart. This lab is in the wrong chart. You understand what I'm saying to you? So if the data's dirty, you know, that's why you have to Your assessment, you look at that patient and then go to the data because it could be that patient does not look right and the labs are just fine. Something's still wrong, you know what I mean? Especially with someone as dark skinned as I am.
[00:37:42] Speaker D: Right?
[00:37:43] Speaker C: We are, have been turned. Let's just make it something as simple as cyanosis. Look how dark my lips are. You understand what I'm saying to you? I don't have the clinical sign, the blue lips, but there are other things that could show it.
[00:37:54] Speaker D: Right.
[00:37:55] Speaker C: You could see it in my fingertips. You could see it. I'm taking on an ashen color.
[00:38:00] Speaker D: Right?
[00:38:00] Speaker C: Starting to look. You know what I mean? So you have to use your assessment skills because the computer's not going to tell you that type of stuff, you know? So it's basically allowing data to inform you but not replace you.
[00:38:12] Speaker A: That's awesome and that's powerful. I love how you said that. You have the data like it's biblical. Like you, you have to go, you have to assess your patient basically and then the data can line up with what you're seeing, but you just can't go based off the debt, the data.
[00:38:28] Speaker D: Right.
[00:38:29] Speaker A: I love that. And even just thinking about patients, how.
[00:38:32] Speaker B: Many times have you seen where they're.
[00:38:34] Speaker A: Getting a blood pressure and the blood pressure cuff is like on wrong. And I'm like, maybe we can get a better blood pressure. Like the data is only gonna be as good as how you obtain it.
[00:38:44] Speaker C: How you and how you put it in.
[00:38:47] Speaker A: But that assessment, if you're, if you know how to do a good, well focused assessment or a good head to toe assessment, that's gonna tell you a whole lot more than just a set of vitals. That set of vitals is just an addition to, you know, it helps supplement what you're actually seeing with the capillary refill, the patient's heart rate, all those good things and the questions that you're actually asking the patient. So thank you for sharing that. That was very valuable.
Now it was. What's one? Because I have to ask everybody from now on because I've gotten some really good stories. But what is a one patient interaction that left a last impression on you and it still influences how you mentor new nurses today.
[00:39:32] Speaker C: Rob telling you this happened to me in 2009 and I, I think about this all the time. I was a brand new nurse, I want to say I was off orientation, we were still using paper charts and I was off orientation.
And my patient, he was a nurse nurse. So it was already intimidating because he was a nurse, but I'm always careful. And so I triple checked that mar. I got all the meds together. According to the mar. I brought in the pill cutter. I brought that pill cutter in, I set that stuff down, and I did my fourth check. As I'm talking to him, reading his meds off. Reading these meds off to him. I hadn't even opened them yet. Reading off what I'm about to give him. I put the carafate in the cup, and he said, I don't take a full capsule of carafate. And I said, well, this is what you're ordered. You know, I just totally dismissed him. And he said it again. And I said, this is what's ordered. I didn't get an attitude, but I'm like, you know, this was ordered. And he said to me, I'm only going to take this because I know it's not going to hurt me. He took it. And then I grabbed my paper, I grabbed the cup, and when I picked up the paper, the pills cutter was under the paper. I knew I was supposed to cut the damn pill. That's why I brought that pill cutter in there.
[00:40:54] Speaker A: Aw.
[00:40:55] Speaker C: And I had to tell him, I'm sorry. You know, I went to. I called the doctor. I was crying because I don't cry for nothing, you know, I called the doctor. I'm gonna lose my job. I never forget calling her, and she's like, oh, no, honey, it's okay. And she's like, the worst thing you could have done was just made his stomach feel a whole lot better. And that just didn't work to me. It just did not work for me. It did not work for me. I was like, I've made a mistake. You know what I mean? Like, I don't. I'm very, very careful. I'm very thorough, you know? And I brought the pill cutter in there, you know, and that taught me to just listen to the patient when they say don't. Or I usually. Or this doesn't look like. Listen, just stop and just. Just listen. Just stop. Just stop and verify. You know what I mean? If. Because remember, they're taking a different pill at home, right? They're probably taking generic pills. And then we give them the good stuff, right. They're taking toe pro tartrate.
[00:41:54] Speaker D: Right.
[00:41:54] Speaker C: And we come in with the low presser. Yeah. You see what I'm saying? We get a different pill color.
[00:41:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:41:59] Speaker D: You know what I mean?
[00:42:00] Speaker C: You get the good expensive stuff here in the hospital, you know? So when they say, this ain't the one I'm taking at home. Stop. Because it could be pharmacists put the wrong pill, packaged it wrong.
So just stop that. As always, that I have learned to just listen to stop when they say something. I don't care if they're confused, just stop and listen, you know, and if you're unsure, grab somebody and it's okay. Because when you make an error and people fail to realize that you're a victim too, no one knows how it beats you up. Like, not only have you potentially could have hurt someone, imagine how that feels like, like I said, no one comes to work or no one comes into this profession. I wonder how, who, how many people I can mess up on today.
[00:42:47] Speaker D: Right.
[00:42:47] Speaker C: You know what I mean? I mean, like who. You know what I mean? So, like, you are that second victim yourself and what you go through. So just, you know, it's very hard. I think about it all the time. Like I. I mean, I find myself sometimes I just think about it. Oh, my God. You know, I could be just doing.
[00:43:04] Speaker A: It at one moment.
[00:43:05] Speaker C: Yeah. Just doing anything and just think about it. And it's. And I'm always. I find myself just doing something like this right here. Like, stop thinking about you.
[00:43:13] Speaker A: Don't beat yourself up.
[00:43:14] Speaker C: Yeah. Since 2009. And I keep going back to that, you know, so just listen to your patient, Just listen to them and stop.
[00:43:22] Speaker A: Get some clarity. That is really good. And even when we talked about the task oriented preceptor that will basically train someone else to be task oriented, we see it all the time. Because then the new nurses, it's like, okay, I want to get that green check mark because now everything is electronic. But it's like, no, we got to see the patients, see the full picture.
And there's a lot that you will learn that's not in that chart, that's not documented. You have to ask the questions. Or let's say, I'm not going to say it's not documented because it may not be, but because with the electronic MAR there, you can pretty much document everything. And when all this fails, there's a nursing note section. Right. You can put in a nurse's note.
But a lot of the information that's required, that should be required is not highlighted for required documentation in that electronic MAR or that electronic chart. So you do have to be intentional about having that conversation with your patient, connecting with the patient. And like you just said, listen to them. And what I heard you say was basically listen to the patient. Because even though you felt like you crossed every table, dotted every I. The patient's telling you I don't usually take the full dose of that and you're like, yes you do. It's ordered.
[00:44:40] Speaker C: Right.
[00:44:41] Speaker A: And then they finally said, well I'm going to take it because I know it's not going to hurt me. Yeah, that would have, I probably would have thought about that a lot too.
[00:44:48] Speaker C: I'm telling you, it was just, it was already intimidating because he was a nurse, you know, and it's just like I messed up on a nurse. People, she's of all people, you know.
[00:44:57] Speaker A: Yeah, but you got to forgive yourself.
Forgive yourself right now and move forward.
[00:45:02] Speaker B: Forgive yourself right now.
[00:45:03] Speaker C: That's what I have to do. I think I just have never forgiven myself.
That's probably what it is.
[00:45:08] Speaker A: Forgive yourself. But in that, hey, we got The Nurse Preceptor LLCs. I love it.
[00:45:14] Speaker B: Now, how do you think technology is.
[00:45:17] Speaker A: Reshaping the nurse patient relationship? And what should new nurses be mindful of?
[00:45:22] Speaker C: Well, technology is a double edged sword. I'll tell you, working in informatics, as an informatics nurse, I love and hate it. Decision making support, that's one of the best things. It's one of the greatest tools we have in the, in the emr, however, the danger is we, we have become over reliant on it. You know, we're using it as a tether, right. Instead of as a tool. And you see it in missed, missed care episodes.
[00:45:49] Speaker D: Right.
[00:45:50] Speaker C: So the patient's CHF and they didn't check intake and output.
[00:45:55] Speaker D: Right.
[00:45:55] Speaker C: And so now you're asking the nurse, why didn't you get, why didn't you check the intake and output? You know, he's overloaded. Well, it wasn't on my task list. He's still chf, is still a CHF patient.
Right, but this is the kicker. It's not on your task list, but you wrote you were going to do it in your care plan. So the EMR does not tell you what to do. It doesn't tell you what you what to do. So we're finding that the EMR is, we have become over reliant on that decision making support.
[00:46:25] Speaker D: Right?
[00:46:26] Speaker C: You knew your care plan to check the intake and output. The care plan is your nursing orders. That's all you need. That is your compass. The care plan tells you exactly what you're supposed to be doing the whole shift for your patient, but because it wasn't on your task list and popping out at you every two hours, you didn't do it. You know, but the patient still chf. So it's, you know, like I said, the EMR is only good as the person who inputs the data.
[00:46:49] Speaker D: Right.
[00:46:49] Speaker C: So if, if a doctor does not generate an order for intake and output, you're not going to get a task force, but you're still responsible as a registered nurse to know to do that for your patient. And so that is one of, like I said, one of the things we do have in here with the worksheets, with the problem focused worksheets in a patient, you know, you pick the diagnosis with it. What do we typically do? What do you typically see ordered for this type of patient? What interventions do we typically do for this type of patient? What type of labs and what do you expect to see those types of things to anticipate? You don't see the intake and output order. Okay doc, where's the order? But you're gonna do it anyways. Even if there is no order, you don't need an order to check intake and output. That's a nursing driven intervention. So it's that type of thing. Like I said, it's a double edged sword. It's really good when used as intended, but we have become over reliant.
[00:47:43] Speaker A: Thank you. What advice do you have for nursing students and new nurses as we wrap.
[00:47:48] Speaker C: Up up this episode to always ask why, ask why. Don't ask questions simply to get the answer to help you in the moment, you know. Don't ask questions just to fulfill a task. Ask to understand the rationale. Ask to get an understanding. Ask never be afraid to ask why because you're going to learn something. I would say always just ask why you know. And the answer to you can never be because I said so or because the doctor ordered it or because this is how we do it here. Right. So why do we do it this way? Right. I'm trying to understand why. Always ask why of each other. Hold each other to a professional responsibility.
[00:48:32] Speaker A: That's awesome. Thank you for sharing because that's going to resonate with a lot of new nurses who tune in to this episode.
So thank you so much. Ms. Ebony now or Mrs. Ebony now. How can our listeners connect with you?
[00:48:49] Speaker C: Yes. So definitely you can reach out to
[email protected] we have contact forms there. Anything you want to talk about? I have some socials so we do have Facebook threads, LinkedIn. Well, I'm sorry, no Facebook threads, Instagram. The handle is thenursepreceptor and you can find me on LinkedIn as ebonygonzales okay, awesome.
[00:49:11] Speaker A: Thank you for sharing. I will also add all this wonderful information of how to connect with you Mrs. Ebony on the descriptions below on the podcast episode. Rather, my listeners are tuning in on YouTube or their favorite podcast platform like Spotify or Apple Podcasts. So thank you for sharing. Now what's Before I let you go, is there anything coming up with the Nurse Preceptor?
[00:49:35] Speaker C: We do have some stuff in the works. Definitely has some preceptor stuff going that's going to be targeted towards preceptors and then I'm not going to jinx it. But I'll give you this right here. I have something coming. Think learning meets detective work.
[00:49:51] Speaker A: Awesome.
Okay, we will be looking out. And Mrs. Ebony, thank you so much for getting on the All1Nerds podcast with me and just sharing your insights, your journey, your patient perspective and I am looking forward to all that God has for you and I pray that he breathe on everything that you do as you align with pouring into new nurses as myself.
[00:50:17] Speaker C: Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate you doing this with me.
[00:50:24] Speaker B: Thank you for tuning in to this episode of the All One Nurse podcast. If this conversation with Mrs. Ebony sparked something in you, don't let it stop here.
Be sure to share this episode and leave a five star review so that you'll let others know that this is an awesome podcast. Now again I will drop all the details to how to follow Ms. Ebony Gonzalez on her TikTok, her Instagram and Threads and she on LinkedIn. Again, if you want to connect with her on a more professional level and be sure to explore her resources like the Vadmecum Journal on her website thenursepreceptor.com and as I mentioned at the beginning of this episode, we're giving away three copies of the Bad Meckm Journal for New Nurses which is designed to help you you grow in confidence, clarity and purpose. And if you're listening around the launch of this episode, the deadline is September 20th and I will be announcing the winner on September 30th live on TikTok at 8pm Central Time. 8pm Central Time. So go ahead and if you haven't already, follow me, your host, Nurse Chanel Tompkins across all platforms like TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube and my handle of course ISL1 nurse and you can connect with me professionally through LinkedIn and let me know if you're interested in sharing your nursing journey, your patient perspective, your educational insights or personal insights. And if we go deep on one topic, that is totally fine because other people need to hear your story. And don't forget to check out All One Nurse link tree for everything. All One Nurse faith based mentorship podcast updates and nursing resources coming January 2026 is the next round of the All One Nurse 10 week mentorship program and it's an immersive experience rooted in faith, clinical confidence and professional and personal growth and development.
And of course it's going to be faith based. And whether you're a nursing student or a new grad, this program is definitely for you. So don't forget to get on linktree down in the description below and sign up and I will send an email now. Coming Coming up next on the All One Nurse Podcast is the awesome Rebecca Leon on TikTok on Instagram and she's also a podcast host on Nurse Converse presented by Nurse.org and I'm so excited because she's also another staff development specialist with a background in oncology and she is really rocking it. I can't wait to share her journey and how she is really advocating for professional growth, especially when it comes to the Latino community. And I cannot wait for you to tune in and be able to listen. Until next time, remember that you are capable, you are called, you are covered, you are everything that God has called you to be in this space.
So stay grounded and stay growing and continue to let your light shine.
[00:54:26] Speaker C: Sam.
