Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: This is the All1Nurse podcast where we are bridging the gap between the stethoscope and the soul and getting back to the human side of healthcare.
[00:00:15] Speaker B: Powered by Riverside.
[00:00:33] Speaker A: This episode of the All One Nurse Podcast contains discussions on sensitive topics including domestic violence, sexual assault and human trafficking. These subjects may be triggering for some listeners and I encourage you to take care of your mental and emotional well being. If any part of this episode is distressing, please feel free to pause or skip the content. If you or someone you know needs support, please reach out to a trusted professional or contact the appropriate helpline, which I will also be making available in this episode. Did you know that the month of January is National Stalking Awareness Month to increase awareness about stalking and its impact on victims as well as January is National Slavery and Human Trafficking Prevention Month to raise awareness about human trafficking and promoting efforts to prevent it. Now today I have Leah Hambrick, Forensic Nurse examiner and some of you may know her as off the clock Nurse on IG and TikTok.
[00:01:41] Speaker B: Welcome Leah, thank you so much for having me.
[00:01:44] Speaker A: Yes, before we get started, let me tell you about Ms. Leah and some of her contributions. She has made significant contributions to forensic nursing. Leah has been a nurse for over 15 years. She is a sexual assault and forensic nurse examiner, a patient advocate for victims of sexual assault, human trafficking and provides hospital wide training on these issues. Leah has spoken extensively on the Nurse Converse Podcast which is presented by Nurse.org about her work, how nurses can Help victims of Sexual assault and human trafficking awareness and some of her episodes on Nurse Converse include Can Men Be Sexual Assault, Forensic Nurses and Forensic Nursing how to Identify and Help Domestic Violence Victims. Some of her initiatives have included implementing the National Protocol for the Sexual Assault Guidelines for nurse advice line protocols and charting. She has also raised money for stocking cell phones for domestic violence survivors and placing human trafficking and domestic violence resources and bathrooms across her hospital. She has done just so much more. But I'll let Ms. Leah tell you more about everything that she does as we dive into her professional journey, her personal insights, patient perspective, educational insights, and of course her call to action and what we can do as listeners. So getting right into it. Nurse Leah, tell us what's your origin story? Tell us about you.
[00:03:23] Speaker B: Well, I was born on a on a rainy day. No, I'm just kidding. I I gosh, life wise I have been everywhere I feel like and just kind of growing up military and moving all around. My dad was in the Bethesda Naval Academy to do his residency. He was a doctor so we Lived in Guam, Hawaii, California, and out to Virginia for his fellowship at Georgetown. So I really started getting interested in medicine at a very young age just because he would take me on rounds with him too. But I honestly didn't know what nurses did, truly, because whenever there was an emergency, he would have me sit with one of the nurses at the nurses station and we would just play games and eat candy. And I, for the longest time thought that's just what.
So I ended up. When I went to college, I had started pre med, and then I was like, wait a second, I don't, I don't really want to be a doctor. Like, my dad was always working, you know, he was always working, very stressed. So after switching my major a bunch of times, I ended up landing on nursing because I was doing my prereqs and I met a nurse who was coming back for her BSN and had to take that Math 101 class. And so she actually talked to me about the nursing field and working as a nurse and how flexible it is. So that's kind of how I changed my major to that and. And got into. Into nursing. Yeah, started nursing. I honest, even up to the point of me starting clinicals, I didn't even know how much bodily fluids was going to be involved. So I literally went into this career path completely blind, but no regrets. It's been a struggle, I think, especially people getting into the nursing field because there are so many specialties, it can take years to find. Your home is kind of what I. Your nursing home. And so I found forensic nursing after 11 years of being a nurse. And I can honestly say that it's a. It's a real passion of mine. It's something that I feel a sense of purpose I'm doing. Not that I didn't with any of the other specialties that I worked in, but it's something about this type of nursing that really makes me want to step up and try to change things on. Not just like a local level, but like a federal level as well.
[00:05:57] Speaker A: Yeah, that's good. That's good. Now, you said you, you nursed for 11 years before finding forensic nursing. So you got to go back, tell us about your experience, especially as a new nurse. Like, how did, how did you get to where you are now?
[00:06:13] Speaker B: Yeah, I graduated in 2009, so that was like the economic recession. And I was so disappointed because everyone was like, oh, if you go into nursing, you can always find a job. And I must have applied for like 50 jobs and I only got one call. Back which was wow to a. Yeah, yeah, it was to an orthopedic and trauma floor nurse position. So I only lasted a. About a year on the floor. I realized it's. That's not the life for me.
So I had a friend who had actually gone to the operating room and she was like come to this wonderland where patients are asleep and family members are out in the waiting room. And so I went and shadowed and I really enjoyed it down there. So I actually spent, spent about 11 years in the operating room.
And after I had gotten my two years I did travel or for about seven and a half years up until Covid hit all the surgery stopped. I did a small stint very, very like five months of being a, a travel nurse recruiter. But this is during COVID time. And that was like. I feel like I have PTSD from that. That was terrible. God, what a traumatic to be a recruiter too. Like that was so stressful and it just wasn't for me. So I ended up finding a nurse job at this teletriage position. So the nurse advice line. And that's kind of where, you know, I first came in contact with the sane role or patients who needed to be seen by a sane. Really quick, let me rewind. While I was a recruiter, I did have one ER nurse that I traveled that was a sane nurse. And that was the first time that I had even seen that credential because I was in the operating room. And we didn't talk about it in nursing school, we didn't talk about forensic nursing. So I didn't even know that it existed. So I, I had, I had previously talked to her about it cause I was really interested in it. But then when I worked at the nurse line we were getting so many calls from patients who had been sexually assaulted or in domestic violence situations because we saw the rise, especially with domestic violence, because people were working from home or losing their jobs or. And just the stress of that. So I wanted to learn more about that. And I was so lucky to find a free program that was offered by one of the other hospitals in my area. And it was all online self paced.
So it's like what else were we doing in 2020? And by February 2021 I had finished the whole course and done my in class clinicals and happened to find an open position at my hospital that was listed. And I applied for it, interviewed and got the job and started working the following week. So I feel like everything just kind of fell into place.
I got really lucky.
[00:09:24] Speaker A: Yeah, it seemed like it was like a calling how you ended up in forensic nursing. And also one thing that you pointed out that I didn't realize. Let me go back. Two things I've realized. You were doing travel nursing before COVID even came along, a while before COVID came along. And travel nursing seemed to have been more common since COVID But you have been doing travel nursing for good while before COVID And when Covid hit, I think nursing was like the thing to do for travel nursing. Like a lot of people did travel nursing, but it affected or nursing so much and so. Or nurses.
[00:10:02] Speaker B: Yes. Or. Well, I feel like orn Pacu pre op.
And then you look at like the surgery floors, like for med surg. How many of those shut down because they didn't have any post op patients to take care of?
Yeah, Covid really affected a lot of people. When I was doing recruiting, really the only jobs that were out there were ICU and ER for a really long time. So. And especially like L and D, they were trying to push people out instead of having them stay there. Right. So a lot of those jobs kind of, you know, disappeared too. So it was a really tough time. And also it was such an unknown time that hospitals didn't even know how many nurses they were going to need. So what was so stressful about it is, you know, you tell somebody who just packed up their entire car and are driving across the country, you as a recruiter had to be the one to call them and be like, hey, so the hospital just canceled your contract because they don't need you. They overstaffed with travelers. But also, I don't have another job for you. And you know, and then hospitals, local hospitals were furloughing their nurses. And so it was just, you know, I think we all remember what a difficult time it was just I hope we never.
[00:11:25] Speaker A: Right.
[00:11:26] Speaker B: So that we never have another incident.
[00:11:29] Speaker A: Yes, yes. I was actually pregnant around that time. So right when Covid hit, I was. I was due to deliver in April. So by the grace of God, I end up being at home during that time, like right at the beginning of it. And then when I got started back, I was at cvicu and it was different. It was different. And then I actually had took a role, educational role at my hospital because of course it worked with home life now and all that. But thank you for sharing that. So tell me, what goals are you pursuing right now?
[00:12:03] Speaker B: Oh, well, the number one goal is to not get fired. Right. Because I've got a mouth on me and something I picked up when I was traveling. Right. And working in the operating room, I think anybody who works in the or, it's so different than the floor because, you know, the patients are asleep. So you kind of like, I don't know, the amount of cursing that goes on in the or and just like, no filtering is wild. But yeah. So I. I'm trying to. How do I put this? I'm told that I have really great ideas. I need to learn how to communicate them.
So it's. It's because. Right. So within the field that I work in, we don't typically, we don't bring in revenue. Right. To the hospitals. So in order to have goals to make things better. Right. Make things like even putting those posters up in the bathrooms. Took a year. It took a whole year to get domestic violence and human trafficking resources on a poster in the bathroom stalls at our hospital, which is like, you would think, such a really simple thing to do. But, you know, you just. Within every hospital system, I think whenever you're trying to implement change, you just roadblock after roadblock. And you really have to try and convince people who have the power to do it why it matter should matter to them. Yeah, right. So especially if it's going to be costing any kind of finances. So a current goal is to not get fired and to kind of learn how to better communicate. I am working on, uh, Well, I just finished some projects that I'm pretty proud of and now I'm just, yeah. Looking for. For more projects to do. There's just like an endless list of things that you can do within this field to try and make it better. Just because, I mean, if you look at it, domestic violence and sex assault and tra. Human trafficking have been happening since the beginning of time.
And so I try to look for ways to try and at least leave my mark. Right. To try and chip away at that humongous iceberg that is all of these things. So I just finished publishing my first journal article that I'm super proud of that I co wrote.
And then I also just came out with an educational series, module series on human sex trafficking and to teach adults how to have candid conversation with children about it. Because human trafficking, if we look at the average age where someone starts in trafficking, it's 12 to 14 years old. So. So we really want to be educating those within the hospital systems and our school systems, because those are the people who are going to be seeing these children more often. And. And also the majority of people who are trafficking children are actually their own. So So I worked on that project for about a year and a half, almost two years and it's finally live and I am trying to find my next goal. Okay, what do I, what can I work on next?
[00:15:27] Speaker A: Okay. And you said it is walking wise.com. it's called.
[00:15:32] Speaker B: Yes, walkingwise.com. or if you are a nurse and want to get CEUs for doing it, you can actually put purchase it through the Academy of Forensic Nursing website.
[00:15:45] Speaker A: Awesome. Oh, that's nice. You have been busy. You have been very busy. And fun fact about you, you travel. You are big on traveling. You have a best in travel group.
[00:15:58] Speaker B: Well, that's the agency that I'm going through right now. There are different agencies that we can use, but I do, I host international group trips for healthcare workers or active. Honestly, anyone that wants to come. I think it's just mostly healthcare workers that end up coming because that's who follows me. But yeah, so I have a trip to Colombia coming up in February, South Africa in June, and then I'm looking to open up a Christmas market, European Christmas market tour for December of 2025.
And it's just my way of being able to still go out and travel and do things that I love seeing different cultures and even while being permanent. And I'm, I'm very grateful for my job being extremely flexible with those hours and, and knowing when I, I need to take a break. And it's kind of my way of like my relaxing time while also getting to meet other people as well with shared interest.
[00:16:55] Speaker A: Got you. Now looking into your personal insight. Would you say that being able to travel is also a way that you stay grounded as well?
[00:17:04] Speaker B: Absolutely. Absolutely. Doing these trips, traveling, really taking time off, I think with this job position, I don't think a lot of people really have a full comprehension of the violence that comes with domestic violence and sex assault and human sex trafficking. I think that the general public, if they actually understood just how hard like the, the emotion that comes with it, like the emotional trauma that comes with it, I think they would maybe take it more seriously. And so being somebody who sits with these patients after they had just experienced this assault and seeing their injuries, along with being told very specific details of their assault and really feeling, I feel like sometimes I can like feel their pain. It's really important to be able to have something that you can do on the side that was going to calm you, that was gonna allow you to step away from what you also just experienced talking with these patients. So I think a lot of times people think that Sex assault is all about sexual and domestic violence is about somebody having an anger management problem. But what it is is power and control over another person. And so sometimes it can be easy to have that kind of secondary trauma from it. Even though it didn't happen to me, that is not my trauma to bear. It still is kind of in your mind. So having nightmares or just like, I was walking in the airport and someone, like, screamed out their kid's name who's, like, running down the hallway, and I, like, flinched, right. And it's like, why did I have that reaction? But it's like, you're always just kind of. Kind of on edge. So to stay grounded, I know when I need to take a break. And I'm really, really lucky that with my manager and my job, she's very flexible with that. So whenever I do need to take some time off, I'm like. I'm like, I'm going to take this whole month off, no problem.
And so, yeah, so just being able to. To, yeah. Have that time going for. For hikes with my dog or walks with my dog. Making sure that if I'm watching tv, it's not constantly documentaries on sex assault and violence, because it's. It's really easy. Like, it's. I don't know, some people are like, oh, I really like watching true crime. It calms me so. And I like watching true crime shows, but sometimes it can be a little bit too much. So just really knowing things that can ground you and doing breathing exercises, like, even something as simple as that can. Can make a difference.
[00:20:06] Speaker A: Good. And that's what I was going to ask you, like, what other instant breaks, because everyone is not able to get up and take off for a month or to travel across the world. And I even joke and say I live through other people. I reached out to my. My coworker and I told her, just send me a recording of the beach. I wanted to tell her a whole minute, but I was like, I ain't want to ask for too much, but just saying, like, hey, taking nature walks with your dog, taking some deep breaths, you know, just honestly taking time to just really reset or just to step away from that shift or the information that was dumped on you during that shift. And I can only imagine, you know, sometimes we have rough days at the bedside, or I used to have rough days at the bedside, and I just sit in the car and just stare and I'm like, what did I disassociate? Yeah, yeah. Question my whole being.
[00:21:00] Speaker B: Sometimes I think having a really good therapist. Like, if somebody wants to get into this position, you have to have a really good therapist that you trust and knows a lot about trauma already established. Because you're gonna see things, you're gonna hear things that you're like, why would somebody do that to another person? It's like you hear about the most horrific things and in specific detail. And you also wanna make sure you're not trauma dumping on your friends or family too. Right, right. And just making sure that you're able to process that. And having somebody, you know, like, I don't mind trauma dumping on my therapist because I'm paying her for that.
[00:21:42] Speaker A: Yeah, correct. That's correct.
[00:21:45] Speaker B: I've been doing this for over three, almost four years. So I have a very established relationship with her. And she knows too. She's also very easy to get in with. And so it's like, hey, I just had like a terrible shift and I really need to, to talk to you. And she's able to fit me in. So I think that's really, really important to have, especially when you're going into.
[00:22:09] Speaker A: This, just having an outlet, it sounds like.
Yes. Now, just talking about forensic nursing, tell us a little bit about just what it is, the different types. And what does education look like for someone that's interested. Interested in becoming a forensic nurse? Leah?
[00:22:26] Speaker B: Yeah, so forensic nursing is actually an umbrella term. So there are so many different types of forensic nurses out there, and some of them will overlap and some of them are not available in every single state. So the most common types of forensic nurses are a sexual assault nurse examiner or a saint. And also I'll call myself just a forensic nurse examiner if I'm working with someone who was not sexually assaulted, but they experience domestic violence, strangulation. So there are forensic nurses who also work in trauma as far as collecting evidence for stabbings and gunshot wounds as well for the. For police investigations. And then there's something called a death investigator, a medical, legal death investigator. And that can be a nurse position. And that's not in every single state.
I'm not sure how many states there are, but it's basically a nurse that goes in to a crime scene where there's a death and they work with the coroner or the medical examiner to figure out what the cause of death was. So was this homicide, suicide, natural causes, things like that.
And then there's a psych legal nurse, like a nurse practitioner that can go in and somebody is saying that they can't hold trial because of their mental state. The person who's being accused, their mental state, or they're trying to have the plea as like a insanity. So a nurse can actually go in and talk with the defendant and make that determination, if that's even a possibility. And then there are legal nurse consultants as well, where different law firms can reach out, have them read depositions, have them look at patient charts, and make a determination if somebody was at fault here. I'm also considered a legal nurse consultant as an F&E Sane. Sometimes I'll get subpoenaed to go to court and act as an expert witness to testify in court on the evidence that I collected and also educate the jury on these topics as well. So for my state, we are determined to be either fact a witness or expert witness based off of our background. And the judge actually makes that determination at that time whether I can go forward as an expert witness to educate the jury. What we actually do is, well, I can only say as far as a F and E or sane. When I'm working with somebody who has experienced domestic violence, strangulation specifically, or a sex assault or human sex trafficking, we perform what's called notably known as a rape kit.
Even with that, there are guidelines with who can have that exam done based off of time frame.
So what I do is I'll go in and I'll talk with a patient about their reporting options, because there are different reporting options, and depending on what state you're in, some states, you don't have to talk to police in order to have the exam done. And then in other states, like my state, we have an additional reporting option where evidence can be collected and sent off to the crime lab, but there's no investigation done, no police involvement, but they'll still get the results from the kits. And then every place has the law enforcement report where there's a full law enforcement investigation completed and with police. And then the third one is an anonymous, which is not everywhere, where your name isn't even seen anywhere on the kit. The kit goes to the crime lab, but it sits on a shelf for a certain amount of time based off of that state or crime lab laws and rules. And then at any time, that person can update, upgrade to a full law enforcement report and have the kit run.
[00:26:34] Speaker A: That's so much Alicia, how I know as a victim. How would that person know just about coming in to see you or see a forensic nurse examiner?
[00:26:46] Speaker B: Yeah, well, that's part of our job is making sure that they know their reporting options. But even if they wanted to wait and. Or before even coming in, I Always recommend that everybody call like Google, a local advocacy group in your area, or if you don't have one, like you're in a really rural area, you can call the National Sexual Assault Hotline or Domestic Violence Hotline, and you can see what the laws and regulations are in your area. Because it's so different. It's so different. I mean, even here at my hospital, if you come in for a sex assault, we'll see somebody up to seven days post assault. Whereas if you go to the hospital in the city next, next door to us, they will see you up to five days post assault. And it all has to go back to government funding.
So also people who say keep politics and, and medicine separate for us. And I feel like for everyone, honestly, it's all combined. It's all combined because we're seeing such a shift in what we can offer our patients. As far as post trauma resources too, because of government laws that have been changed, Congress has just cut Voca by 40%.
So a lot of nonprofit organizations that help with post trauma resources are having to either shut their doors or cut hours, cut staff. So there's not enough. Yeah, there's not enough advocacy groups out there for these patients. On top of that, we, because of vawa. So this Violence Against Women's act that was passed in 1994, it was actually brought up by Joe Biden, who was a senator at the time. In 1991, it didn't get passed until 1994. So that's saying that no person should have to pay to have a rape kit done. And it was actually just in 2021, it was renewed. It has to be renewed every five years. It got stuck during the Trump era for renewal. And then once Biden took office, he renewed it.
But it finally, in 2021 actually covers everybody. So in 1994, it actually only covered women. Okay, heterosexual women. And then the next time it was renewed, it covered those on like Indian reservations and undocumented people who were sexually assaulted in, in the US and then also same sex couple violence. So before, and then this last time that was renewed, it added in the transgender population. So now it covers rape kits for every anybody and also providing prophylactic medication. So part of our job, right, making sure people know their reporting options, doing a head to toe, making sure that they're medically like not just physically, but also psychologically doing okay. So we assess for suicidal ideation because we know that's a, that's a really big issue too within these populations that experience domestic violence and sex Assault, which can, can be anybody. Right. Like these topics affect anybody. Yeah, we typically will see a lot of suicidal ideation in our male population especially.
And then we also listen to their statement, everything that was done to them during their, the assault. And then from there it helps to drive our exam in deciding where we can potentially find evidence like DNA. So I'm looking, I'm listening for where could there be saliva, blood, ejaculate, sweat, skin cells, anything like that. And, and that's where I'm deciding where I'm going to swab. If you see in like the movies and TV shows how they have like that kind of L shaped ruler and taking photos of bruises, we also do that. And, and then afterwards we give prophylactic medications for STDs, HIV and pregnancy.
And again, back to, you know, laws. There are a lot of places that are now not allowing some, some programs to give Plan B, even though it is not in a, an abortifacient. Right. It's, it's a prevention.
[00:31:03] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:04] Speaker B: So, but that's because lawmakers don't really have an understanding of healthcare. So, so they're making it harder for us to give these medications that are really needed for these patients. So it's, yeah, it's been a struggle and very stressful. We'll see what, what's to come. But yeah, that's, that's basically what I do as a forensic nurse. Wow.
[00:31:30] Speaker A: Like, it's mind blowing. I didn't have any of that written down. Like, let me just say that you have really gave me and the listeners listening in a full view of what forensic nursing entails. And one thing I do love, because I do follow you, you know, as we both have been hosts on Nurse Converse, and I start following you, I know that you are very passionate about your role as a forensic nurse. And as well as talking to patients, I think that every nurse can glean from how you interact with your patients who happen to be domestic violence victims, victims of sex, sex trafficking. And so with that, just explain to the listeners how you approach patients and how you talk to them. Because like I've heard you mention, like with movies, everybody think that, or people think, oh, domestic violence is like, we'll say, oh, it's awful. But then how do we really respond when we hear someone say that they, they are a victim? So could you just give us speak on that for me?
[00:32:38] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I mean, just, you know, adding to that, I have found that everybody knows that these topics is terrible. Why would you ever do this to somebody else? And I think when it comes to people coming forward, it's a lot easier for people who haven't experienced it to try and believe that either the person is lying or that it wasn't as bad as they're making it seem to be. Because it's really hard for us to wrap our heads around another human being actually doing this to another person. But also at the high rate that it happens, right, like just in the US somebody is sexually assaulted every 68 seconds, and every nine minutes, that person is a child. And when we're talking about children, children and adolescents are grouped differently. So we're talking about prepubescent, every nine minutes, somebody who is prepubescent. And so the sheer amount of people that come forward, I've found in my own experience, the number one thing that people are scared of with coming forward is that they're not going to be believed. And that, you know, when we think about a perpetrator, we think about like in the movies, like someone who is maybe low status, low, like, has nothing else. But that's not reality. The reality is that a perpetrator can be anyone, right? And a lot of people who get away with things like this typically have high positions of power or their victims are less believed because we're like people who are maybe somebody in your church or you know, a politician who has, you know, a lot of people look up to you or someone within sports, right, who is being accused of doing this really terrible thing. People don't want to believe it. They don't want to believe that it's true. So sex assault is actually the number one most underreported crime in the United States.
People do not come forward. So Even that's every 68 seconds is probably an underestimate of how often sex assault happens. Also, sex assault can happen within a relationship. And so with in our own system, our own law system, you know, the defendant is innocent until proven guilty. It's extremely hard to, to prove that, that it wasn't consensual.
So I think that when people come in, you know, just thinking about how you would want to be talked to, and the number one thing I found is that people are just scared that you're not going to believe them. And so even not just as healthcare workers, but as family members and friends, if somebody comes to you and says, hey, somebody sexually assaulted me, or hey, this person abused me, just saying, I believe you can make all the difference in their healing, you know, And I believe you, this wasn't your fault, because trust me, they have enough self blame.
They, they go through every single scenario of like I should have, I would have if I had just done this, then maybe this wouldn't have happened. You know, they're, they're already going through all of those situation their heads and, and self blame. They don't need other people to try, try and add on to that.
And also just apologizing like I'm so sorry for what that person did to you. And that's different from like I'm sorry for what happened to you because when we say I'm sorry for what happened to you, it takes, it takes the perpetrator out of the sentence and we really need to be holding them accountable.
So just saying, I, whatever you tell me, I believe you. This was not your fault and I'm so sorry for what that person did to you. Can make all the difference because let's say this even goes to court, right? Very few cases even go to court. We only have about a 2% conviction rate here in the US for sex assault and because it's extremely difficult to prove that it wasn't consensual. So I think sometimes in this entire system of people, especially in our community, people who take to social media and automatically have their own opinions about, about what happened, we see it a lot in our community that they blame shame and don't believe those who come forward. So making sure that you're sitting down at their level, right eye level, not hovering over them. And also if, if it is a family member or, or if it has nothing to do with your care as a medical professional, you don't need to know the details. They're already having to tell the details to patrol officer, to the sane nurse, to a detective, to a prosecutor, to, to all these different people. And sometimes having to rehash what happened can be extremely re triggering and re traumatizing for them. So it shouldn't take, if you are a safe person, for the person coming to you, if they're opening up to you, they see you as a safe person, as a safe person, you shouldn't need to know the details in order to believe them. And honestly, your opinion of what happened doesn't, it doesn't mean anything, right? So if you're trying to be a support person for them. So unless they want to open up to you about it, you don't, you don't need to know the details. You can just say if you want to, I'm here to listen.
[00:38:14] Speaker A: So what I'm hearing you say is you can empathize with them without necessarily being nosy and having. Putting them in a position to have to relive the situation like you're already safe. That's good enough. Apologize that this person has done this to them because we don't want to take them, Take the offender out of the. Out of the situation, the equation, like you said. You said, apology, apology for the offender doing what they did and just saying, I believe you. Because that one moment, like you said, make or break how they start to heal, because nobody knows the outcome. And if only 2% of those accused are convicted, then just imagine these adolescents or young people, what you call it, you call them adolescents. And something else, you said they were different children. Children and adolescents. Just imagine if that offender is somebody that's like a leader to them or the father figure, you know, or whatever. It's like they may still have to see these people and they may never be held accountable for their actions. And so that one moment of saying I believe you to that child or that adolescent could really could still help them heal going forward.
[00:39:29] Speaker B: So that is actually the. They found the number one thing that caused the most healing for a child or adolescent was that both of their parents supported them and believed them when they came forward.
[00:39:41] Speaker A: That's good.
[00:39:42] Speaker B: And I think it's the same thing with kids. You know, we're like, oh, my gosh, child abuse or child assault, like, that's so terrible. But then when somebody, one of them comes forward and says, hey, this person did this to me, we want to say, oh, well, you know, kids make stuff up all the time and they lie all the time and, you know, they embellish the truth. And so it's really important if we're telling people, like, hey, come and tell me. Especially kids, you know, you, I. You always come and tell mom or you come and tell dad if anything happened, that when your kid does come forward, that you're actually believing them and you're taking it seriously.
[00:40:17] Speaker A: Yes, yes. And one thing, if you've ever heard that what happens in this house stays in this house. Like, we, we shouldn't say that, because if something bad is happening, as their parent or as the head of the household, don't threaten them and say like, that should stay in the house. Like, yeah, don't go telling all of the family's business. But if anyone has put you in a position that you feel uncomfortable, if they've touched you anywhere that they shouldn't have touched you, then tell someone. You know, they may threaten you, tell someone. And so that made me think of.
[00:40:53] Speaker B: That with kids, too, their biggest thing is being afraid of getting into trouble.
[00:40:59] Speaker A: Right.
[00:41:00] Speaker B: If you. If you listen to anybody, a lot of these kids that come forward, they're like, well, he said that he would hurt my mom if I said anything, or I would be in trouble if I told anyone. And so for kids, it's more like just about getting in trouble. And so I think having those conversations with your kids, and honestly, when they're really young, as soon as they can start understanding, if you can, say, point to your nose and they start knowing their body parts, you can start talking to them about, okay, who can touch you here? You know, if anybody makes you feel uncomfortable, you come and tell me right away. And then it's up to you as a parent to go and find out what happened.
But also not setting our kids up to be in those instances of being uncomfortable. So even with the. The holidays and making sure that if your kid doesn't want to hug grandma or hug grandpa or do anything, don't force them, because if you guilt them into it. Right. That's exactly what a perpetrator would do. They would say, you're gonna hurt my feelings if you don't give me a hug. Right. Even if they. If they voice that they don't want to give a hug.
[00:42:17] Speaker A: Oh, wow.
[00:42:18] Speaker B: So pushing somebody, pushing a kid and really teaching them those to not listen to their body and not listen to how they're feeling can really make them a target for perpetrators. Saying if you do this and you don't tell me and you tell me the truth, that you're still going to be in trouble. Which, like, you know, there can be. There's a line for that. Right. And it's like, honestly, when it's so hard, because it's like, doesn't give them a free pass to do, like, really naughty things. But there are certain things that you say, like, if you tell me the truth, you will not be in trouble.
[00:42:52] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:42:53] Speaker B: And. And that goes for anybody making you feel uncomfortable, even me as mom. If you don't, I'd hope you want me to hug you, but you don't want me to hug you. That's okay, too. It's not going to hurt my feelings. I know you still love me, and I still love you. But I think it really starts as. As kids and how we treat kids. And I've also found in my own experience with especially my female patients, they're like, I had this bad feeling, and I should have listened to my gut feeling. I should have left or I should have Told them to go away, and I didn't. And it's because, especially as women, we're taught that if we voice our concerned concerns and voice how we're feeling, that we're overreacting or we're being rude or some kind of way. And you know what? At this point, I'm like, be rude. Be rude. If somebody is making you uncomfortable and you've already politely said, no, thank you, I'm not interested. And they're still trying be rude. Teach our kids to be rude in that instance, because the person that's continuing that behavior is not listening to them. And so clearly they need to be directed some in some other way. And sometimes, okay, I've found as an adult. Right. I'm almost 40, and if I'm out in public, I have no shame anymore. If somebody is making me feel uncomfortable, I'm going to try and make them feel just as uncomfortable as they're making me feel. If that means that I'm barking at them, barking at them or screaming or something like, I don't care. You need to get away from me right now. You know? And it's not like, it's not me being crazy. It's. It's that I'm listening to my instincts. I'm listening to my own body and how I'm feeling. And. And we need to start teaching other people that they need to respect boundaries, too. So we starting that at a young age saying, you need to keep your hands to yourself.
[00:44:54] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:44:54] Speaker B: You know, you can ask, can I have a hug? And if that person doesn't want to, we're not going to shame them into it. Oh, you feel so bad if you don't.
[00:45:02] Speaker A: You.
[00:45:03] Speaker B: So it really starts with early education. Yeah.
[00:45:06] Speaker A: I think you just, you just said something made me. When you said boundaries, it made me think about just, you know, you. I can't speak on, like, victims and their experience, but like you said, just to try to prevent sex trafficking, prevention, stalking, like, how do we even get to the point where we are. We're preventing domestic violence. And it's like, we have to set boundaries as an individual to not let people cross those boundaries or set boundaries that we don't allow to get crossed. If we're not feeling comfortable, go ahead and say something or go ahead and distance yourself from that person that's seeking to have a relationship that you may mutually want a relationship with. But then we have to, like, honestly see those red flags and go from there. And I can't even really give voice to it, but I think Boundaries and teaching our children boundaries and what boundaries consist of, that's really good because I'm learning boundaries as an adult. And so just imagine, honestly, teaching your children boundaries because like you said, adolescents and children are victims of sexual assault, right? Leah, this is a topic. I don't know.
[00:46:16] Speaker B: I know I could talk about it for hours. And, and honestly, if you, if you really think about it, when you're saying, talking about the red flags, not letting people get away with those red flags, right? Like, like nipping it in the butt, like, immediately. And sometimes people can say it's. It's so difficult in the job that I work in, right. Because I see the worst of the worst of people. And sometimes people, people have not had very. They weren't raised with really good coping skills. And so, yes, sometimes maybe they did something that was a red flag. And it's not so much about the red flag, but it's behavior going forward. So it's the level of the red flag.
How deep red is that flag?
So this may be like a light pink. Are they receptive to listening? And then does their behavior change? And if it doesn't, then you got to get out of there. It's. There's just so much. Even with our, our patients who are in domestic violence relationships, because I think there's that misconception, too, that it just, it starts off as abusive, but it doesn't. It could be years before the true abuse actually shows itself. And by that time, do you have kids? Do you have pets? You've invested so much time. You know that that person can be a good person because they were when the relationship first started. So there's this hope that they will revert back to being that person that, you know, they can be. But you have to realize that that, that wasn't them. That was this facade that they were putting on. So I think, especially with domestic violence, the thing that's so hard about leaving is not necessarily the person, but the idea of who that person could be. That's. That's really, really hard. And so we go around that cycle of violence where there's this tension buildup and then an explosion of anger and an assault, and then there's a honeymoon period where they're making up for that. And they're like, wow, look, they're being so nice again. They're being exactly how they were. And there's a hope that they're going to stay like that, but we know that it's. That's not the truth. So really being, when it comes to Those red flags really being realistic with them, but also as family members realizing, or friends realizing how extremely difficult it is for that loved one to leave that relationship. Not just like because of the lack of tangible resources. Right. The number one cause of homelessness in the US for women and children is domestic violence. Not just realizing that the most dangerous time for somebody in a domestic violence is when they decide to leave. They finally decide to leave. That's typically when we see the homicides or murder suicides. So just realizing not just the emotional aspect, but also that like tangibly it might not be possible. And then also looking again at our legal system, our government, how so many of those judges, even if there is documented abuse from one parent to another, if there's no child abuse documentation, they believe that a child should have both parents. Parents. So now you're sharing custody and sending your child off to your abuser's house. And then when we get into even that, a lot of these abusers are undiagnosed narcissistic personality disorder, which is, that's a whole nother conversation. It's all stemmed in shame and fear of abandonment. But that's no excuse for their behavior. But a lot of these people with who are abusers will see themselves as losing everything and they will literally hurt themselves just to get back at the person they're trying to abuse. And so this is where we'll also see kids who had a parent who is a domestic violence abuser unaliving that child just to hurt the other parent. So there's so many dynamics into it. It's not as easy as, well, if the abuse is so bad, then why don't you just leave? Right? It's not as easy as. Well, if you don't want to be in human trafficking, then why don't you just leave? Because it's kind of the same idea that a lot of the, the people in trafficking rely on their traffickers for every part of their, their life, right? Housing, food, living basically. And then if they do try to leave, you can't just walk out on a pimp. You're going to get beaten. Right? So, and plus they have nowhere to go. Plus sometimes the pimp or the trafficker was their boyfriend or their partner and, and they didn't even realize that they're in trafficking because it's not really talked about enough. We're seeing these just. There's, there are people in certain situations that it's not as easy as everyone thinks to just get up and leave. So it's our job as Society, our job as individuals to try and change, change the culture of it, honestly. And it doesn't just. It starts with teaching our kids at a young age, but it also starts with holding each other accountable. And that means our close friends and family members. So saying that, you know, you hear something inappropriate that a friend, a close friend or a close family member said, correcting them in the moment, even if it makes you feel uncomfortable to correct them or that they're going to get mad at you for correcting them, not just going along with it, you know, like the, the guy, locker room talk, how they, how they say, oh, it's just locker room talk. That's how we perpetuate, you know, society being okay with these things occurring, actually happening. So it really starts with you as an individual in trying to change the culture in society.
[00:52:17] Speaker A: That's good. That's good, Leah. Thank you for sharing that. Now, so. So talking about domestic violence and sexual assault and human trafficking, I have some resources listed here, Leah, and you just, you confirm with me. For domestic violence, I have the National Domestic Violence Hotline, where you can call 1-800-799-7233 or text the word START, s t a r t like START and stop to 88788. They offer 24. 7 support and can connect domestic violence victims with local resources. And there's also a support line tailored to Native Americans called Strongheart's Native Helpline. And you can call or text 1-844-762-8483. And that is 18447 in the word native for short. And then there's womenslaw.org that also provides legal information and support for victims of abuse. Now, for sexual assault, I have Nationalist, the National Assault.
For sexual assault, I have the National Sexual Assault hotline, known as RAINN. And you can call 1-800-656-HOPE and the numbers are 4673, or you can use the chat line for confidential support as well. There's also the National Sexual Violence Resource center that offers a wide range of information and resources for survivors. And there's nova, the national Organization for Victim Assistance, which provides support and advocacy for victims of crime, including sexual assault. Do all these sound pretty relevant, Leah? Yeah. Okay. Yes.
Okay. You also have the National Human Trafficking Hotline, where you can call 1-888-373-7888, or you can text the word help to 233-733-24 for 24. 7 support and resources. And there's also Office for Victims of Crime, which offers a comprehensive list of resources and support services for trafficking victims. There's the Polaris Project, which provides resources and support for victims of human trafficking. And Polaris Project is P O L A R I S project.
[00:54:59] Speaker B: They run the national human trafficking hotline.
[00:55:02] Speaker A: Okay, thank you for that, Ms. Leah. As we wrap up today's episode, Leah, what final thoughts do you have for our listeners and what would you like for them to take away from this all one nurse episode?
[00:55:15] Speaker B: Yeah, I really hope that people learn that human trafficking, sex assault and domestic violence can happen to anyone. It does not matter your socioeconomic status, race or ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender. It can happen to anyone. It can happen anywhere. It could be your next door neighbor, it could be your family member that is posting happy photos all the time on social media. You just don't know. And to remember that it is not as easy as just getting up and leaving. And that if anybody does come to you, just realize how difficult it is or it was for them to come forward to you and hopefully you'll remember to take them seriously and start by believing them when they do come forward. I think making sure going forward that you are really diving into politics. I know people who say I'm not really political. If you are looking at your ballots, just realize that there are certain, certain propositions or amendments that can make a huge impact on these survivors and depend on the care that they get, the resources that they have access to. And so really making sure that you are paying attention for when those do come come out. And honestly, I think, I think that's it mostly just, just no matter who it is that's coming to you, whether it's a child, your child, somebody else's, or an adult, that you're really sitting and listening instead of trying to convince them that it didn't happen because they've already tried to convince themselves.
[00:57:04] Speaker A: Yes. Now I must say, for my, even for my nurses who listen into the podcast in the inpatient setting because the patient may be there for something, something else. When we have those admission questions, we have to take those like just listening to you and just talking about domestic violence, sexual assault, human trafficking. And on that admission assessment, we have to take that serious. Guys, I just want to throw that out there, like truly ask your patient those questions without family being present as well.
[00:57:39] Speaker B: Absolutely. And remembering too that when you are giving care, it's 1 in 3 women and 6 to 10 men, depending on what study you look at, have experienced sexual, slight sexual assault in their lifetime. And really universally using trauma, informed care, going in with empathy and listening, but also Making sure that you're letting them know that you know what's happening, what you're doing before you do it, and making sure that you're checking in with them to make sure that they're doing okay as well. So just keeping them informed as much as possible and also understanding if somebody were to freak out, you know, like something that you think shouldn't be something that a person would be freaking out about, just know that you don't know what their past is. You don't know what their past traumas are. And being understanding of that, that's good.
[00:58:33] Speaker A: Thank you. Thank you. How can our listeners connect with you?
[00:58:38] Speaker B: Yes, I am on Instagram and TikTok as off the Clock Nurse. You can also go back on the Nurse Converse podcast and listen to my my previous episodes. And I'm also on Facebook not as much, but as off the Clock Nurse Travels. So I had that one first when I first started social media back when I was doing all my travel nursing. But it has since switched to more, more relevant information on domestic violence and sex assault, human sex trafficking.
[00:59:10] Speaker A: Okay, okay. Now Barless, I know you mentioned that you use, you put up petitions sometimes. Can you tell us more about that on your social media?
[00:59:19] Speaker B: Yes, whenever. Yes, whenever there are national calls to action, I do try and put it put links up in my stories for those and trying to keep people up to date. Just like making sure that you call your representatives right whenever these do go into action, I think that being able to call your representative and filling their mailbox with messages saying like, hey, I support this or I don't support this bill really does make a difference. You know, I wish that we did have more people calling into their representatives when it came to voca, which is the Violence of Crimes act, which provided all this funding for nonprofit organizations. And unfortunately we just weren't able to get the word out enough. But yeah, I think that calling your representatives and really letting them know, especially just realizing again that sex assault is not about sex. It is about power and control over another person's body. So yeah, just getting out there, standing together and protesting and watching those laws because we all know how they tend to get slipped in to different places and are just changed right under our noses. So if you do watch my stories, I do try as much as possible, whenever something is coming out or if I do see an organization that is so important to our survivors that's about to shut down, I try to uplift them and put it up their GoFundMe or whatever. However, to donate to try and prevent their closure. So yeah, that's.
[01:01:01] Speaker A: Thank you.
That's a lot. That's a big call to action. Leah.
I do advise my listeners, go check out Ms. Leah on Instagram and TikTok off the clock Nurse at Off the Clock Nurse. And as for me, your host, I'm Chanel Tompkins. You can connect with me on Instagram and TikTok and Facebook at all one nurse. And on Instagram, I'm at all one nurse Chanel S H E N E L L But thank you so much, Leah, for even just getting on my platform today and just sharing your knowledge and expertise.
[01:01:39] Speaker B: Thank you for having me.
[01:01:43] Speaker A: And thank you, my listeners, for tuning in to today's episode of All One Nurse Podcast with Nurse Leah, the assigned nurse, a forensic nurse examiner. And I hope that you found this episode just as inspiring and informative as I did. And if you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to the Allwin Nurse Podcast so you'll never miss an update. And don't forget to rate and review the All1Nurse podcast on your favorite podcast platform because your feedback will help us improve and reach more listeners. And of course, share the episode. Share this episode with your friends, your colleagues, your family, and of course, those new nursing students out there and new nurses. Stay connected with me, your host, Nurse Chanel. And go follow Nurse Lia on Off the Clock Nurse and go tune in to the Nurse Converse Podcast to Nurse Leah's episode, as well as other insightful episodes by other nurses who have been voted on to Nurse Converse by the nursing community. And so with that, until next time, let your light shine. Bye.
